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Brexit

Westminstenders: Don't and Keep Living

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 23/10/2019 13:19

Status Recall as of approx 1

Johnson’s Withdrawal Agreement (The WA) :
Currently parliamentary session blocked in its current form due to being nodded through (government accept defeat without vote). It can not be represented to the house without changes (which the EU will not allow - unless perhaps it reverts back to May's WA) or a 'substantive change of circumstances' (eg another party says they will support it and there is reason to believe Johnson now has a clear majority).

The Withdrawal Agreement Bill (The WAB):
The withdrawal agreement bill is purely about how the WA will be carried out in UK law. It passed its 2nd reading which is merely a indication of interest of support for the bill. The next stage is where amendments can be made and this is most relevant to the political declaration which accompanies the WA settlement.

This however has hit a road block due to the government recklessly and foolishly trying to push such an important and far reaching bill through in a ridiculous time frame, which no one could possibly give proper scrutiny to.

If Johnson wants a deal in the best int3of the country its an essential part of the process regardless of which side of the fence you sit. Failure to spot problems could leave us shafted by other countries later down the line.

The timetable is now under review and negotiation with Corbyn.

The extension with the EU:
The EU president has signaled he would support an extension. This is in part because issues in London mean it is highly unlikely the EU will be able to ratify a deal by next Thursday even if they have an emergency meeting. It's in their interests to extend in some way.

Going along with the Benn Act is the politically least risky option, though France are making growling noises about it.

Two issues spring up with this. The first is the issue of the UK having no EU Commissioner after 1st Nov and the second is the EU budget runs until 31st Dec 2019.

The Queens Speech:
The government as it stands might struggle to pass the QS especially with the DUP off side. It failing to pass is, in some ways, a good thing for Johnson. The speech was essentially a manifesto and blocking it is a good electioneering strategy. It also puts pressure on the opposition for a Vote of No Confidence.

There are already rumblings following the passing of the 2nd reading of the WAB and the EU signally they are open to an extension that some in Labour (including crucially Corbyn) do think they must agree to a GE in the autumn.

A Vonc is still unlikely to happen until the EU formalise the extension and the EU are unlikely to do this until its clear what Johnson's next move with the WAB is. Johnson meanwhile doesn't want to agree to a longer timetable as that ruins his do or die speech and facilitates an extension. So expect some brinkmanship over timings here. We might not get a formal extension approved until the wire.

The GE:
All Brexit is currently about is manoeuvring to win the next GE. It must be seen in this context.

Polling suggests that an extension without the WA is bad for Johnson and he is likely to lose support to the Brexit Party. There is an ever shrinking likelihood of the WA going through before 31st Oct, if its not impossible already. Thus Johnson needs to see if he can get the WA through very quickly after an extension but before a GE.

This reasonably lines up with Labour's problems. Before the WA goes through a GE looks bad for them with them haemorrhaging support to the LDs and the the Brexit Party.

If they are seen to facilitate the WA passing before an election then there may also be a sense of betrayal amongst their majority remain supporters but it might let them off with the Brexit Party threat particularly in the Midlands.

Meanwhile the SNP have an increasing desire for a GE. They look like they will clean up in Scotland and it might be their last chance now to stop Brexit. Similar logic applies to the LDs.

Thus the chances of a GE shoot up once an extension is granted, but the Cons and Labour have a mutual self interest in getting a deal done ASAP before a GE in many ways.

This of course would probably suit the French and therefore the EU.

Which is why a deal before 15th Nov and by the 15th Dec, isnt unrealistic. A GE might come before Christmas but I think both the Cons and Lab have something of an interest in letting the dust settle and getting new messaging in to head off threats from the LDs and Brexit Party. I'd be more inclined to say a Feb election tbh.

Anyway things may have changed since I started typing this up given how quickly things are moving.

But despite the headlines that Brexit is in pergortory it is now slowly rolling forward and now has some momentum behind it.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
22
tobee · 24/10/2019 18:07

Thanks @mrslaughan. Thread moves so fast it's confusing! Grin

mrslaughan · 24/10/2019 18:08

@prettybird - I think it's pretty will established that Bozo do not give one fuck about Scotland......

lonelyplanetmum · 24/10/2019 18:09

Also Johnson says in his esteemed munificence that he will graciously give MPs more time to debate his crap deal, but only if they agree to a general election on 12 December.

Or ... what exactly?

Ellie56 · 24/10/2019 18:11

Has this link already been posted?

www.buzzfeed.com/emilyashton/boris-johnson-uxbridge

tobee · 24/10/2019 18:13

Libdems and Labour etc could get together to try to sort Uxbridge plus voters voting tactically. Whereas Tories won't be able to get together with anyone.

smilethoyourheartisbreaking · 24/10/2019 18:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SwedishEdith · 24/10/2019 18:15

Lewis Goodall
@lewis_goodall
Getting sense from opposition parties that if govt wants the election it must drop the WAB. They think (rightly) that it’s a trap.

mrslaughan · 24/10/2019 18:15

Is Dom Cum def I stopping work on the 31st? 🤞🏻🙏
Or will this apparently vital surgery be delayed until after an election.....

smilethoyourheartisbreaking · 24/10/2019 18:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NoWordForFluffy · 24/10/2019 18:18

We were still at uni on 12 Dec. We only got 2 weeks off.

And students can vote at home.

prettybird · 24/10/2019 18:20

Unfortunately American Guy Mark Francois has a massive majority (some thing like 23,000 - 42% of the vote Shock). Andrew Bridgen's is also large as his percentage is even higher Wink, something like 13,000 and 58% of the vote Shock

Andrea Jenkins on the other hand..... Grin 2,000 is eminently toppleable Wink Steve Baker's majority is "only" 6,500 - although he did get 50% of the vote Hmm

Tactical voting should be .....interesting Wink, whenever the GE does take place Grin

thecatfromjapan · 24/10/2019 18:21

LDs and Lab definitely not getting together in Uxbridge.

I think it's going to be a full-on fight & Johnson might benefit.

But the Farage factor might shake things up a bit.

MockersthefeMANist · 24/10/2019 18:21

So what does he do if he doesn't get his election date?

Call a vote of No-Confidence in himself?

CrunchyCarrot · 24/10/2019 18:21

Every time I think I can't say one more WTF about this Tory govt I find I'm sitting here shouting W.T.A.F. again!

So Johnson is going to generously give MPs more time to debate the WAB IF they agree to a GE in December????? W.T.F.

I would dearly love to see Farage take Johnson's seat!

SwedishEdith · 24/10/2019 18:22

norman smith
@BBCNormanS
Slightly scratching my head to see why Labour wd back PM's Brexit offer. Give my my deal, give me my election..or what...????

Ben Bradshaw
@BenPBradshaw
Replying to
@BBCNormanS

We won’t

MockersthefeMANist · 24/10/2019 18:25

...If he does call a VoNC in himself, I hope the DUP stick by their agreement and vote for, that is against, him, and keep him dangling.

ListeningQuietly · 24/10/2019 18:25

Bozo and Farage will NEVER stand against each other
they both have much too much to lose

Bozo is most likely to parachute into Chris Chope's seat
as the local Tory party think the sun shines out of his every orifice
AND
For strange reasons
loathe Farage with a willing

Farage could then stand in Uxbridge unopposed

prettybird · 24/10/2019 18:26

@mrslaughan - I know that Grin.

I have no sympathy for Liar Carmichael, the incumbent LibDem, though - although I do feel sympathy for the SNP canvassers (who got close in 2015 Wink).

I am pretty sure that BJ has written off Scotland - but expects to get his majority from Labour heartlands Angry

Let's hope his hubris gets its just rewards Wink

ratsnest · 24/10/2019 18:30

I'm wondering which Tory is going to stand in Heidi Allen's constituency as it's been a blue seat for as long as I can remember until HA defected.

MockersthefeMANist · 24/10/2019 18:30

A winter election means a low turnout, especially for people without cars or free bus passes.

prettybird · 24/10/2019 18:30

So what does he do if he doesn't get his election date?

He's threatening to just keep repeating the vote and not put forward any other parliamentary businessShock

Really mature Angry

....a bit like a toddler sitting down and having a tantrum, wailing, "But I want it.Give it to me. I want it. Give it to me." Hmm

mrslaughan · 24/10/2019 18:31

We can but hope @prettybird

You know I don't think I have ever loathed/despised someone with the depth I feel for Bozo......

JeSuisPoulet · 24/10/2019 18:31

Brexit and austerity are two sides of the same coin I feel; about those who deem themselves special restricting "excess" from those not worthy. That's why Leavers are largely Tory and authoritarian if you ask me.

mrslaughan · 24/10/2019 18:32

So my mum used to pick people up for elections and take them to the polling booth - really common in NZ - does that happen here?