Brexit Arms

[time4chocolate]

Not much else to say really 🍷🍷🍷

You don't seem keen to answer Dusty. Don't worry, I won't be a bore and ask again

I asked upthread but then the squabbling started so you probably missed it.

Sorry Pingu, I wasn't ignoring you I got waylaid with other stuff

Would I be happy to have Brexit Party MP in control of my area?

I'd be ok with it, yes.

One of my friends is a WM candidate in the next election actually.

MPs are from all walks of life & all backgrounds - a BP MP would be no different than an independent MP in most respects.

The BP are single issue at the mo but there is no chance of them forming govt so I would not be concerned re their lack of policies for the upcoming Parliamentary period.

I think BJ is playing a dangerous game here. I would say take a short extension and get the deal debated and amended (provided they are reasonable amendments) and passed.

That's what he's asked for though

To debate, sensibly amend (not wrecking amendments like 2nd ref or CU) & ratify, then go onto GE after that.

Xpost Pingu!!

I was typing the response as you posted xx

Ignore dusty, so boring and out of touch.

Very tedious, I concur!

not wrecking amendments like 2nd ref or CU

Wouldn't a customs union go most of the way to removing the border in the Irish Sea issue and help the DUP 'back on board'? You'd also get a load more Labour votes. That seems like the very opposite of a 'wrecking amendment'.

Wouldn't a customs union go most of the way to removing the border in the Irish Sea issue and help the DUP 'back on board'? You'd also get a load more Labour votes. That seems like the very opposite of a 'wrecking amendment'.

As you know, a CU would block our freedom to sort our own trade deals & would subject us to EU control in this area & the ECJ

For this reason a CU is a very obvious wrecking amendment.

As you know.

Thanks for your reply Dusty. I will take your word for it. Of course they would never win a General Election. I doubt that they could win a local election in reality, but who knows.
I just would feel very anxious for my town if God forbid they did overthrow labour (I'm not even a labour voter but would be if it kept the Brexit Party at bay).

Sorry, the CU would do those things, not a Customs Union

the CU is what is being proposed in a wrecking amendment.

As you know.

most of the way is pointless, especially given the trade off. This is why the DUP do not the / a CU.

zero/zero tariffs are being proposed which also get "most of the way" on Irish Sea border.

*sorry DUP do not support the/a CU

Dusty thanks for the heads up - weird behaviour.

Sunny suggestion is flextension up to deadline same as last time. If granted Boris could leave ASAP after Deal passed. However EU and Boris both judging Parl would just dither on and block more to new deadline.

Looks like EU are keeping cards close in hopes of forcing GE issue.

Regional polling (and EU elections) does not suggest the rosette on a donkey strategy is going to work for Labour.

I think BJ is playing a dangerous game here. I would say take a short extension and get the deal debated and amended (provided they are reasonable amendments) and passed.

That's what he's asked for though

Yes, but he’s being disingenuous. Parliament wouldn’t be starting to consider the WA until Monday evening under BJs plans. We’d have lost a week... and it’s less than a week between 31st October and the 6th November when I believe Parliament will have to dissolved for the GE.

He’s playing games and seeking to score political points when he should be focusing on getting the bill through Parliament... With a majority of 30 at the 2nd reading he stands a good chance... and the amendments that will be brought would come however short the scrutiny period.

BJ is playing a dangerous game here... He may be able to score some points against Corbyn et al for being cowards... But he’s played that card already the previous two times they didn’t cooperate, so I’m not sure how much more there is to be gained from this.

However, if the opposition respond by proposing a timetable for processing the WAB that is before BJ’s proposed 12 December election date - which they would do if they had any sense - BJ will be the one accused of delaying Brexit!... This will be seized upon by both the Brexit Party and Tory rebels such as Clarke and Stewart who support the bill. This could be an own goal for BJ!

As you know, a CU would block our freedom to sort our own trade deals & would subject us to EU control in this area & the ECJ

M'eh. We get better trade deals from within the EU tent that we'll get outside it, and the ECJ will loom over whatever FTA we end up agreeing with the EU. Staying in the single market is the smart move (purely economically speaking), customs union the next smartest. Anything else gets bogged down with the Northern Ireland question.

For this reason a CU is a very obvious wrecking amendment.

It's a balance - it makes it a less attractive deal to the ERG types, a more attractive one to 'One Nation' Tories and Labour. As long as the latter outnumber the former, it's a positive step. Everyone want a route out of this impasse, don't they?

Pub's a bit light on! Seems to be only about three Brexiters on here!

When they photograph Brexit marches, do they get everyone to run around a lot so it looks like there are more than half a dozen people people there?

Otoh:

Anand Menon:

"‘No deal off the table’ is coming to mean ‘no end to transition without a trade deal.’ A rather important elision, that might enable Labour to argue it’s delaying an election going forward for the same reason it has to date".

He should add that this is asking the impossible. The EU won't negotiate the trade deal until the WA is passed.

As you know, a CU would block our freedom to sort our own trade deals & would subject us to EU control in this area & the ECJ

99.9% of the population aren’t affected negatively by being the CU... They don’t have much of a clue what trade deals really are, let alone are impacted whether we’re in or out of a CU. It’s something pushed by a wealthy few.... There are reasons for Brexit... this isn’t one that particularly matters imo.

Goodjob you are quoting a common fallacy. The UK is THE major net importing country in the EU. Therefore third countries negotiate via the EU to get access to the UK. In return Germany gets the export boost.

So as I understand it Boris is offering time to discuss the Brexit deal in exchange for a general election - sorry Boris you don’t get to decide either!

howabout

And we benefit by getting access to those third countries (and all the EU countries!) for our remarkably successful services sector.

That is a 'win-win' for us and the EU. Symbiosis.

There is a lot of noise from constitutional lawyers about the WAB clauses 7-14. All very worrying imo and dare I say, undemocratic, to try and rush through a bill that gives these powers to the executive.

I don’t think Boris Johnson is the mastermind some people believe him to be on here. I think he knows that his only chance of passing the bill was with the timetable he proposed, ie, insufficient time to properly scrutinise.

But not autonomy & flexibility 🤷🏻‍♀️

Which is the raison d'être of Brexit

Last post was in reply to DisingenuousSteve, not you Simba, soz for xpost

Wrt proper, reasoned scrutiny then I'm all for that - it's sensible.

It's endless empty rhetoric, repetitive soundbites, wrecking amendments & time-wasting that I'm against