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Brexit

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Brexit Arms

999 replies

time4chocolate · 22/10/2019 21:45

Not much else to say really 🍷🍷🍷

Brexit Arms
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Miljah · 25/10/2019 12:01

Somewhat obviously, we haven't left and appear less likely to do so because our government, many MPs from Leave areas, have come to realise what a bad idea leaving the EU is.

They recognise that large numbers of those who voted Leave actually have either changed their minds and would quietly welcome the whole sorry mess to go away, or are people who haven't given Brexit a single thought from that day to this (some of whom you could tell 'We've left!' and would happily believe that and go on their merry way); people who never voted for anything before and won't again. Which is why Leave so categorically doesn't want a confirmatory referendum.

Places like MN and TB'P given it's a private company, not a political party- are about the only places you see the same dozen people passionate about Leave. Many others just don't care enough.

MPs, in the cold hard light of day recognise that 'The Will' of 17.4m people a) transpires not to be that strong a will, in many; b) that this number represents less than a third of the population; c) The Will of 16.4m cannot be overlooked, especially given the size of marches, of petitions versus the half a dozen who turn out for Leave events (doesn't imply much conviction!).

They have done their homework and, as the representatives of their constituents, not their delegates -they've evidently come to the conclusion that Leaving is not in anyone's interests, unless you are a Disaster Capitalist or Tax Dodger.

As for 'honouring democracy' as a pure, unsullied thing, those waters have been deeply muddied by advisory referenda, Leave lies and illegal prorogation, have they not?

Let's have a confirmatory referendum. Legally binding, this time, in the interests of 'democracy'; with a minimum turn out and clear majority term.

If Leave wins that, I will wonder at the nihilist tendency of my fellow man, but would accept the result. And emigrate.

howabout · 25/10/2019 12:05

I automation of apple picking is not your bag then this is an absolutely fascinating article on electric motors. Re-engineering to stop them overheating. Have to conclude I will be waiting a couple of years for the next gen to come on stream before moving to an electric car.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49958457

Miljah · 25/10/2019 12:17

Dusty what a funny thing to say! That Remainers 'didn't know what they were voting for'.

That statement is so far down that rabbit hole it's hard to know where to start.

We voted for what we had, our daily, lived experience of being within the EU. We rolled our eyes at the occasional froth about bendy bananas etc; we recognised imperfections within the EU; we witnessed the Tory war against society's vulnerable, the Tory dismantling of our schools and NHS, but we knew it was our government, not the EU impoverishing us.

We knew we had the most favourable terms of any EU member, that we drafted much EU legislation ourselves.

But we also recognised that the EU allowed Eastern European countries in too easily, but also saw the growing sabre rattling of a humiliated Russia in those quarters. We recognised that blind eyes were turned to the internal finances of countries joining the Euro.

We also realised that prior to mid 2016, only 6% of polled people put them EU' as being their top concern.

We recognised that the ill-conceived referendum was designed to shut the increasingly far Right of the Tory party up, offered by a bloke who had little understand, and no care for the people whose lives Thatcher originally blighted; whose local unskilled jobs were being done by EU labourers prepared to work harder and live cheaper than they would or could themselves; people who witnessed unwaged EU nationals not being sent packing, as they could have been.

So, against the 'no one knows' of Leave; please don't imply Remain voters didn't know what they were voting for.

BercowsFlyingFlamingo · 25/10/2019 12:36

Exactly Miljah. It was a case of stock with how things are or take a leap of faith into the unknown and uncertain.

bellinisurge · 25/10/2019 12:36

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p07rsg2f

Can we have this music playing in the pub?

MeganBacon · 25/10/2019 12:39

You gov poll done 17/18 Oct shows 30% in favour of bj’s deal, 17% in favour of no deal, 38% in favour of remain, 15% don’t know.

41% would vote to accept the deal, 24% to reject it, 35% don’t know.
The don’t knows are quite high but I suppose 28% didn’t vote in the 2016 ref so it’s pretty normal.
I’d read this to mean people are coming together around the deal?

MeganBacon · 25/10/2019 12:47

Re miljah’s prompt for another ref, same poll says that although 42% think in retrospect we were right to leave Eu (47% wrong to leave, 11% don’t know) this only translates into 40% support for another ref (46% against, 14% don’t know) so I think the ones to swing it are the “just make it go away”/“democracy has spoken” groups.

Jason118 · 25/10/2019 12:48

People are coming together around an end. If they understood the deal, barge poles would need to be extended.

DustyDiamond · 25/10/2019 12:48

Lest we forget that I am 'beneath contempt' according to glitterballing Miljah.

GlitterballGlitterballGlitterball

howabout · 25/10/2019 12:54

The soundtrack gets my vote bellini Star

Got Paolo Nutini on for baking but I'm always open to new ideas. Halo

Glitterball is the way forward Dusty

Miljah · 25/10/2019 12:57

Dusty

I am sorry that you feel beneath my contempt.

I didn't say that about you, but you appear to have confidence issues.

time4chocolate · 25/10/2019 13:00

I had a momentary lapse this morning (coffee hadn’t quite kicked in) back on track nowGlitterball

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Epicwaffle · 25/10/2019 13:04

Sorry to see that your ironic jokey post was taken completely out of context @DustyDiamond. it seems to be a common problem here now. I do wish people would read the posts and the threads properly. It would lead to a much more cohesive approach than just random misplaced outrage! HmmGlitterballWine

MeganBacon · 25/10/2019 13:04

Ooh and there’s voting intentions on there too, 37% conservative, 22% labour, 19% linden, 11% bxp. No wonder bj wants election and Jc is shitting himself. Jc should really cooperate with the deal because at least then he can say ”I helped deliver a better brexit”, he’s not got anything else to work with.

Epicwaffle · 25/10/2019 13:04

Context people. Context!!!

Jason118 · 25/10/2019 13:22

a better brexit
I do love an oxymoronSmile

time4chocolate · 25/10/2019 13:34

Interesting figures Megan. JC could have and should have played this very differently.

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howabout · 25/10/2019 13:43

Yep Megan. That's the polling I based my projection on yesterday.

Regional sampling is interesting as well. Has LibDems outpolling Labour in London. Given Labour hold most of London seats this is problematic.

TheSultanofPingu · 25/10/2019 13:44

Dusty, would you be happy to have a Brexit party MP in control of your town or city, or would it concern you?
I asked upthread but then the squabbling started so you probably missed it.

yellowallpaper · 25/10/2019 13:56

I think BJ is playing a dangerous game here. I would say take a short extension and get the deal debated and amended (provided they are reasonable amendments) and passed.

Theresa May went for an election on the basis of the leave vote in the referendum and it backfired badly. Polls show the anti labour feeling isn't as great in traditional labour areas and in certain entrenched areas, if you stuck a labour rosette on a donkey it would get in. These folk would die rather than vote Tory and it would go to the Brexit party first. Plus there will be a major amount of tactical voting and I suspect Remain would be more savvy in that case.

I think BJ is just being his usual self and inflating his chances and popularity at the expense of the deal, which, like it or loathe it, would bring a type of stability at last rather than the chaos of the last 3 years.

I'm not afraid of a second referendum based on the current deal on offer and remaining in the EU. If Remain wins then it proves many reasonable people were pretty lukewarm on Brexit in the first place, and it may even have given the EU and the government such a shock that they tighten up the existing procedures and listen more to all member states. We are certainly not the only country to have doubts about some of the EU procedural processes.

Sunnyuplands · 25/10/2019 13:57

Yawn! I do feel sleepy when starting to read the type of nonsense dripped out by unimaginative political activists....

A few champagne swilling, comfortably off well known socialist posters have admitted to being activists on here.

DustyDiamond · 25/10/2019 13:59

[Dusty] I didn't say that about you, but you appear to have confidence issues.

Yeah you did Glitterball

Sadly MNHQ frowns upon using screenshots of previous posts, so I instead copy and paste:

Saturday 23:17

" I may have 🙄 you in the past, but you have exposed yourself here, tonight, as being beneath contempt."

Sunnyuplands · 25/10/2019 14:00

Also, let's say Eu give Boris 3 months.

Does he have to take 3 months!! Couldn't he still get it's through as quickly as those bastards will allow him too??

Sunnyuplands · 25/10/2019 14:00

Or is the danger amendments to the deal...

Sunnyuplands · 25/10/2019 14:01

Ignore dusty, so boring and out of touch.