Brexit Arms

[time4chocolate]

Not much else to say really 🍷🍷🍷

Dusty in one area BP stood down when tory had strong candidate. People going up to him in street saying they are frightened to split vote..

Leaves have been tactically voting for years. Remain only just caught on.

I trust us dusty!
Are there many brexit p standing in labour seats... As you say that's where they need to be...

I trust us dusty!

I hope you're right!!
I'm usually an eternal optimist but I'm struggling with this one 😩

I waver. Nothing in bag until fat lady sings....

Today I feel strong.
I wish we could have our own led by donkeys... It's not as if we havant got enough quotes...

Junker quotes for a start!!

I'm a remainer in a leave voting, labour controlled town in the East Midlands. I guess that places me in one of the places you Brexit supporters would love to see targeted by the Brexit party. I've just googled, and apparently we have a Brexit party candidate so that will no doubt cheer some of you up this morning.
Fwiw, I'm not some wealthy remainer elite who Sunny seems to think the remainers on this thread are, an advanced search will probably tell you that.
I just want what's best for this country. Brexit isn't that.

I also live in a labour stronghold town and am praying the Brexit party don’t get in. Only idiots would vote for a party that has literally no other policies except to leave the EU. Hopefully most people will see that.

I’d ask why you lot seem to think a second referendum is undemocratic but a GE isn’t, as we were all aware of the FTPA when we last voted in a GE, but I know I will get the same 80% of elected MPs argument. Some of us voted in despite of MPs support of brexit, not because of. We didn’t really have much choice.

I wish we could have our own led by donkeys... It's not as if we havant got enough quotes... Junker quotes for a start!!

Why not start one? LBD was a couple of blokes and some crowd funding... Seems a bit pointless starting with Juncker though, given that he isn't driving the UK's domestic policy. LBD is all about pointing out the hypocrisy of our own home-grown politicians and highlighting their duplicity and stupidity, eg.

BJ: "There is no plan for no deal because we're going to get a good deal"

Leadsom: "I don't think the UK should leave the EU. It would be a disaster for our economy and lead to a decade of economic and political uncertainty"

Matt Hancock: "We cannot guarantee that people will not die as a result of a No Deal Brexit."

Raab: "I hadn't quite understood the extent of this, but we are particularly reliant on the Dover Calais crossing."

The point of LBD is that the people they quote are in government, hence the 'Led' in Led by Donkeys... They have lied to the British public over and over again. And there are other gems that highlight exactly what they think of you, the great British public:

Raab: "Once they enter the workplace, the British are amongst the worst idlers in the world... The British are more interested in football and pop music"

There are tons more...

I just want what's best for this country. Brexit isn't that.

I appreciate your position & of course it's obvious that remain/anti-Brexit supporters aren't all the stereotype of 'rich elite/moaners/anti-democrat', just as Brexit supporters aren't 'thick/uneducated/racist' etc. Voters for both sides are diverse & cross all socioeconomic & political groupings.

I disagree though with your conclusion that Brexit is not 'best for this country'.

If you look at it in typical remain-centred terms - economy, freedom of movement, easier option than Brexit (which will of course be complex) etc - then I can see why you would think that.

However, it is not just about those things. It is about other stuff from a Brexit-supporting perspective - autonomy, accountability, nation state and the freedom to be the masters of our own destiny free from the constraints of supra-national governance.

Further, since the ref returned a Brexit mandate, it has now become charged with a more emotional & gutteral basis - that is, democracy & our place within it.

Our power is in our vote. It is democracy that replaces violence as a means to be heard & listened to. It is the power of a pencil mark that decides our path as a society.

If Brexit is subverted & denied - be it because 'it's just too complex' or 'the remain lobby are more visible & vocal' then what is the point in voting? When MPs explicitly promise to 'respect the ref' during their electioneering then renege on that singular promise, then what was the point of our vote? When MPs cross the floor & pursue an opposite ideology without going back to their electorate, then what was the point in voting for them? When Parliament holds the govt hostage but refuses to let the electorate have their say via a GE, then what power do the electorate actually have?

There is a case to be made against no-deal, absolutely, but there is no case for no Brexit.

To decide that Brexit can simply be stopped is folly - the electorate gave Parliament an instruction, and it must be enacted - to renege on that is to destroy trust in democracy & that is dangerous.

RE the marching thing. I think there are several reasons there have been no big notable attempts thus far.

1. we haven’t lost ‘leave’... yet.

2. A great deal of people want to leave the EU, but naturally don’t want to be associated with the handful of bloody football hooligans and tommy twats that currently turn up, as if they are on the same page as those same twats.

3. Lack of big money, celebrity public backing. Vote leave is hardly the Zeitgeist is it? The ‘trendy’ thing to do? It would kill the career of many open supporters of it due to the abuse they would receive from the (I don’t want to say left wing media, because that implies that brexit is a left/right divide and I think that is overly simplistic. But the reality is, the media objection is largely from the left wing factions within.) public and the way they would be painted in the media.

4. Why should we have to? The vote won, we had our ‘revolution’ at the ballot box. Democracy is still hanging on by a thread, so whilst ever it remains intact, albeit precariously, then there is nothing to resist.

5. Anonymity. It is not unreasonable, after the 3 + years of ridicule and assumptions that leavers have had levelled at them, for a not insignificant amount of them to want to stay off the radar. Their jobs could be at risk or made very difficult. Their families could shun them. Their social lives could implode etc... imagine you are a nurse who voted leave? A teacher even? These are union dominated professions. The unions are largely pro remain, pro corbyn. The shouty unionists permeate these professions widely. Working in that environment would be untenable for many leavers if their colleagues became aware of their vote.

All of that said, do not underestimate the anger of ordinary people bubbling beneath the surface.
Do not mistake inaction for Apathy.
We all have our red lines, and should they be crossed, I think people will feel they have no choice any longer, than to hit the streets.

Apologies for any spelling/grammar mistakes. Am trying to do three things at once today...

If Brexit is subverted & denied - be it because 'it's just too complex' or 'the remain lobby are more visible & vocal' then what is the point in voting?

How about if it's "subverted and denied" because it's too damaging: socially, economically and politically? That's why a lot of remainers are against it - not because it's "too complex". Even ERG members like JRM have acknowledged that we won't see benefits for decades.

I don't think for a minute you appreciate my position Dusty
Hand on heart, and I want you to answer this question honestly, would you be happy to have the Brexit Party running your constituency?

I think there are several reasons there have been no big notable attempts thus far.

Nigel Farage made a very well-publicised 'notable attempt' and look at the support that garnered.

Anonymity. It is not unreasonable, after the 3 + years of ridicule and assumptions that leavers have had levelled at them, for a not insignificant amount of them to want to stay off the radar. Their jobs could be at risk or made very difficult. Their families could shun them.
But leavers outnumber remainers, or so we keep being told? So you're worried about a minority shunning you? This is just more of the Leave victim mentality.

Would like to answer your other points, but I have to go to work now.

you are really not a very nice individual are you twofingers?

Why is he/she bit a nice individual

Kor*

FFS autocorrect not*

Yes please answer Epic
What has Twofingers posted that leads you to the conclusion that he/ she isn't a nice individual?

How about if it's "subverted and denied" hmm because it's too damaging: socially, economically and politically?

We are so far into the political abyss that, personally speaking, I have gone past that being a priority now. I'm now fighting to have my vote respected regardless of the outcome and yes, I would vote no deal over remain. You can vote based on what you think is more important and I will do likewise. We shouldn't and didn't need be at this point yet here we are so we I will deal with it as I see fit.

I despise Corbyn and swore never to vote Labour with him as Dear Leader. But I would vote Labour to keep the Brexit Party out of my Leave supporting Labour constituency.

Would you want a no deal brexit over remain even if that meant people would suffer? I don't want to leave but would accept a deal that doesn't screw anyone over.

Not the first time I have had dealings with twofingers. Frequently they have levelled personal attacks at me in the past. Such as “off you fuck, doubt anyone will miss you” and so on, yep, that’s on another thread probably still there as MN are unlikely to have removed it, proving one of my earlier points. And here they are, yet again, laughing at my post and dismissing a real issue out of hand as “victim mentality”.

CBA. So....

I do wonder what mummmy thinks of all this.

She was so convinced her hero Boris was taking us out with no deal on Friday

My fear is that a GE is going to make this whole situation much worse.

I can't begin to figure out how people will vote. I know Remainers who are staunch conservatives. I know leavers who have voted labour all of their lives. Neither would want the other party in power after Brexit has been sorted because they don't agree with their policies on domestic issues so do they try to vote tactically in order to get their preference over Brexit, do they hope that others will vote differently so that they can vote for the party they prefer, do they vote Lib dem in they want to remain but then chance that splits the vote and a different party wins overall control or we end up with a hung parliament?

What a mess. I honestly think now that the only decent thing parliament can do is to agree on a Brexit in principle, put it to the public in a referendum and then once that's decided hold a GE to re set parliament.

In fact more specifically, the “Off you fuck” comment was aimed at a post I made about having MH issues and needing a break.

Make of that what you will. I would post a screenshot, but... 🤷🏻‍♀️ MN

I don't want to leave but would accept a deal that doesn't screw anyone over

I would have accepted TMs day (somewhat begrudgingly) and I would accept BJ deal. I won't accept remaining.

On bus, so in haste, but I don't think I'll take lessons in how to be nice from someone whose posting style and vitriol resulted in deletions by MN yesterday. I can't see any reason for epic's personal attack, but there you go...