Brexit Arms

[time4chocolate]

Not much else to say really 🍷🍷🍷

I'm very very happy for another ref to occur, in 40 years when again the political landscape, will be different.

We have been neck deep in the eu for high on 40 years and the majority of voters rejected that 40 year experience...

It's only fair as a country and for our dc we give it 40 years out..

What a pile of crap. For 3 + years, leavers have been on these and many other threads/platforms giving consistent and coherent reasons. they/we eventually gave up due to the constant barrage of abuse and insults, not to mention the bare faced refusal to take any of these fair points on board even just a little. That you stick your fingers in your ears and couldn’t give a fuck about the answers/reasons is frankly not our problem, and I for one am not going to repeat myself ad nauseum. I and multiple others did this in the early days of this whole stupid debacle. I don’t fear a 2nd ref, I just don’t fucking want it or need it. Neither do the majority of brexit voters and a fair few truly democratic remain voters, because they know the truth about what it really represents. It will be an undemocratic dirty fix and we want no part of it.

In a nutshell

It's been a mentioned so many times what leave means. Why it's impossible to pin down, and why it's not relevant

Don't understand what that means at all - how can it possibly not be relevant! I am certain that, if we leave with this deal (or no deal) it will be about 5 minutes before leavers start again to attack and blame MP's saying that, whatever the miserable situation we will then be in, is not what they voted for.

A 2nd referendum does not ignore the first - it is a way of clarifying the 1st. Here's the deal, here's the details and what the repercussions will be. Is this what you want? Perfectly democratic and rational.

I am certain that, if we leave with this deal (or no deal) it will be about 5 minutes before leavers start again to attack and blame MP's saying that, whatever the miserable situation we will then be in, is not what they voted for.

Do you know how arrogant that sounds? Who do you think you are?

Do you know how arrogant that sounds? Who do you think you are

I thinks it’s someone with voters regret Greenish

That you stick your fingers in your ears and couldn’t give a fuck about the answers/reasons is frankly not our problem, and I for one am not going to repeat myself ad nauseum

You're making a massive assumption that I am an obsessive remainer and just don't want to hear any opposing argument. In fact, I voted to leave, like a lot of lefties who view massive entities like the EU with suspicion. Unfortunately, after the first few months, I realised that the people we would rely on to extricate the UK from the EU were just too incompetent and thick to carry it out successfully and it would leave the country wide open to grasping dishonest asset strippers.

Once I stepped back from a staunch leaver position I opened my ears very wide I can assure you and all I have heard from leavers is the same lame and threadbare sentences chanted over and over instead of discussion. As Rudd said of Cummings, this thread comes across as angry and desperate and that's not healthy.

Hahahahahaha.

Yeah. Ok. 👌

Second ref would definitely be a better way to resolve the crisis but it doesn't look as though enough mp's will back it - I assume they're afraid of being targeted (even more than now) for 'wrecking brexit'.

And that accusation would be wholly accurate & fair

If the current Parliament backs a 2nd ref with remain as an option it is subverting democracy.
Over 80% of 2017 votes were for MPs who stood on an explicit promise to deliver Brexit.

They don’t want a people’s vote, they want no brexit, and they know, that if they starve the electorate for long enough, then they can force this position.

👏👏👏👏

As Rudd said of Cummings, this thread comes across as angry and desperate and that's not healthy.

🙄
So go start another thread then

Over 80% of 2017 votes were for MPs who stood on an explicit promise to deliver Brexit.

Yeah, i've heard that sort of quote a million times but you don't know that those votes were specifically placed because the people wanted Brexit. In fact, given that the referendum result was 52:48 and you're stating a figure of 80% of the 2017 votes, we can assume that a biggish chunk of that 80% were remainers voting in respect of other issues.

It is not 'subverting democracy' to change your viewpoint in the face of greater understanding of the facts. As long as you can explain the reasons for the change it should be seen as a sign of good sense.

TBH @DustyDiamond I’m just waiting for the “genuine question” it must be coming soon right? They usually do.

Here's the deal, here's the details and what the repercussions will be. Is this what you want? Perfectly democratic and rational

Yes that works if you ask the people, *do you want the Boris deal, or did you really want a clean break?" I would accept that referendum.

So go start another thread then

Of course, farewell angry people, see you on the other side (wherever that might be... )

Of course, farewell angry people

“Good Grief Penfold” - one minute we are told we are being too lighthearted and that the punters in the ‘Arms’ should be taking the situation more seriously then when we do take things more seriously we are told we are angry - jeez.

Anyway let’s not give two shits and we’ll all carry on as we are.🍷🍷

Amen to that @time4chocolate! and..................

Pray for Sally! 🙏

If the current Parliament backs a 2nd ref with remain as an option it is subverting democracy.
Over 80% of 2017 votes were for MPs who stood on an explicit promise to deliver Brexit.

Which is why we need a referendum not a GE. In a GE people vote for people - someone they know and trust - and a variety of national and local issues, not for a single issue.

I have a lot of reservations about Labour but they seem to be the one party that acknowledges that their electorate includes leave and remain voters.

I have a lot of reservations about Labour but they seem to be the one party that acknowledges that their electorate includes leave and remain voters
Seriously?
A remain party led by an antisemitic EU hater. Who (after demanding we enact A50 immediately) have sat on the fence for the past three years. And have now come to the decision that they want Brexit but they dont want Brexit. They want a GE but they dont want a GE. That will reject any type of Brexit except one they negotiate themselves but will also vote against that. That they will hold 2 referendums, to break up the UK and rip up 17.4 million votes.

Not sure who Labour are standing up for but it sure isn't leave voters and it doesn't look like its remain voters either.

The sad thing is it would almost certainly come out strongly in favour of remain but people are being denied that chance. Instead we will have to be dragged through a vicious and depressing GE campaign
Show me the polls that consistently and beyond any reasonable margin of error indicate that the majority is now for remain and you may have a point. Otherwise there is just no rational case to be made for this. The truth is remain has had over three years to put their case and have failed to swing the electorate in their favour, and this really does mean something.

From your responses, it is clear that all the Leavers on this thread are terrified of a second referendum. It's pretty obvious why.

Voting Tory to get your beloved Brexit (you still might not) means you will also be voting for more austerity, more inequality, more cruel policies against benefit claimants/the disabled etc, more tax cuts for the richest, more hostile immigration policies that have resulted in things like the Windrush scandal etc etc. But perhaps you support those things anyway.

The sad thing is it would almost certainly come out strongly in favour of remain

I've heard this said by a few Remainers....but what is this assumption based on? I genuinely don't see where your certainty comes from.

I feel more certainty that if you're wrong, if it once again came out in favour of leave, the result (and leave voters) would be disrespected for a 2nd time.

Once bitten, twice shy.

Well said LL, we are a pretty jovial bunch in here, and optimistic about brexit.

Not necessarily about it occurring. But but about our survival in the big bad world without the eu bearing over us.

Two, all of those points have been challenged many many times.
It's really not down to anyone in here to trot them all out again if YOU can't comprehend or take them on board.

As for second ref, sure, but in 30/40 years.

Megan, that's very true.

And for all remain calling leave campaign liars, they have not faired well when the spotlight is on them.
The other issue is, we are in the eu and everyone knows what it's about.

For all the democratic way the eu is run it still comes 👇 to GUy de V. Macron. MERKEL. Junker and tusk!!!!

What is the point of another referendum and ignoring the first?
Because 3 years have elapsed since the first and people have more knowledge.
Because leaving would be long term, so we need to check before we leave, not after (which would be daft).
Because of Operation Yellowhammer.
Because the people most affected (young people) did not get a say.
Because of the NI situation - barely mentioned in the lead-up to the referendum.
Because Brexit so far has been an enormous fuck-up before it's even happened...
Like Greenish, I don't necessarily think Remain would win. People's view are entrenched to the extent that they are now willing to vote for a party that gives them their holy grail, regardless of what their other policies are. Nevertheless, I am not 'scared' of putting this to the test - as Leavers seem to be - despite believing that the result wouldn't go 'my' way. I think it's the fairest way of taking the mood of the country on this single issue.