Westminstenders: Super Saturday

[RedToothBrush]

Parliament sits on a Saturday for the first time since the Falklands.

A deal has been reached with the EU. Its utterly shite and worse for the UK than May's deal. It even leaves no deal as an option after transition.

The DUP don't like it. They got predictably shafted.

Tomorrow is a debate and vote on the deal. Amendments are key, in particular the Letwin amendment which seeks to close a loophole in the Benn Act and stop the Deal being adopted tomorrow, instead forcing the ultimate decision over the deal to a later date and forcing an extension.

Which the EU may or may not agree to.

There is also talk of forcing another ref via amendments but this, unlike the Letwin amendment is unlikely to pass.

The vote tomorrow looks to be very tight. The Letwin amendment passes looks likely to make Johnson fail to have the numbers. However there is talk that enough Labour MPs have decided to back the deal.

There is also a big anti Brexit march in London tomorrow (which runs the risk of having problems with the Extinction Rebellion ban). Good luck to everyone going tomorrow.

See you on the other side (which might now be on this thread!!)

Changing tack slightly, but my mother (she who finds BoZo 'charismatic') has today discovered Led by Donkeys and ordered their book as she thinks they're hilarious! Hopefully it'll open her eyes a bit about BoZo's persistent lying.

Yes it is a serious question, I know they are not in power but they haven't spoken out about what they want. At least lib dems want to revoke, Corbyn doesn't want to commit to anything. His answers are vague when asked about Brexit.

Had the opposition parties wanted to seek indicative support for an alternative deal to the one the Johnson government was negotiating

Can you tell us under what constitutional procedure that would have been possible?

Corbyn doesn't want to commit to anything. His answers are vague when asked about Brexit.

This is true of Corbyn as an individual but I think the six tests were clear enough (though they still came with added unicorns).

But I think you are missing the point that the opposition has little or no direct influence over the deal-making process. Its only really power is to oppose.

Labour can't negotiate a Deal while they are the Oppodition.

Keir Stsrmer outlined what he'd look for in a Labour Brexit (those '5 tests') and it would have been something similar to Norway+.

Parliament failed to find consensus when May tabled the indicative votes.

And so, here we are with Johnson's Brecit.

Which will either go to a PV or be passed.

The biggest problem with all of this is that successive UK governments of all flavours have consistently failed to actually govern in the interests of the majority of the country. All have taken the line of blaming someone else. failing to keep abreast of changing world markets and developments and have not come up with strategies to work with them. Blame the unions for example while ignoring the fact that heavy industry was moving offshore, China, Poland even. failure to invest in sensible approaches to offset manufacture in other countries, even back to the time when cotton was being imported from the USA.
It will take one heck of a climbdown but the facts of history speak for themselves and the 'sunlit uplands' always were a lie and can never be realised, not least because the likes of China and the USA will skew things to prevent it.
The UK is a 'middling' EU country that has fallen off the waggon by promising the inhabitants, things that can never happen.
While revoke and having responsible 'EU focused MEPs who believe in a united EU, such as Mr Verhofstadt would be ideal, and with a wholehearted effort, it could happen, but It won't until the lessons of history are learned and acknowledged and the boil is truly lanced.
If you live a lie, you can only be disappointed.

Hate Today, the HoC asked for more time to scrutinise and perhaps amend Johnson's Deal.

I don't think that is ignoring the fate of EU nationals.

The deal needs amending - particularly the bit about what happens at the end of transition.

Hate is not in the least bit bothered about the 5 million, and as one of them I find this faux-concern hugely offensive.

It's worth pointing out that Johnson's Deal has the numbers to pass.

It is the deal Parliament has chosen.

With luck, it will be amenddd, to close some of the scary blanks.

With luck, it'll go to a PV.

But, at current reckoning, it has the numbers to pass.

Just got back from work, and I know you will all be in the throes of dissecting whatever has happened, but could anyone give me a really quick run down please ?

Yes, Misti, I was outside Parliament today - and that seemed to be where there was most representation of EU nationals.

And they weren't clamouring for Johnson's Deal. 😁

It is the deal Parliament has chosen

Er, not yet. You might well be right about the numbers, but proper scrutiny of the agreement could change that.

There is currently no form of deal Parliament has expressed support for. Parliament has been back sitting for weeks. Had the opposition parties wanted to seek indicative support for an alternative deal to the one the Johnson government was negotiating with our European partners they have had ample opportunity. They haven’t done it, because they want to stop Brexit entirely

@LouiseCollins28 - I don’t think that’s true. Labour still don’t appear to have any actual Brexit policy - they’re just fence-sitting and hoping the Conservative Party will implode. The LibDems and SNP and some Labour MPs want to stop Brexit, but they don’t have the numbers to command a majority in Parliament. That’s the issue really - there aren’t the numbers for remain or for any deal currently on the table or for anything that might get us out of this mess. I’m not even convinced a GE would solve anything - even if it were to happen before 2022 as mandated by the FTPA. I think we’d just end up with a hung parliament. And yet more uncertainty.

Not much, frumpety.

Letwin's amendment passed - allowing time to scrutinise Johnson's Deal.

In theory, he needs to send the letter.

The vote on the Adelaide was pulled - re-scheduled for Monday.

And Johnson is refusing to send the letter requesting an extension.

I think.

I've been out, too.

Let's see at 11 pm if BJ has signed and sent the letter in the specified form
and also whether he has sent any accompanying communication asking the EU not to extend

It will be very interesting / nerve-wracking to see how long the EU take to respond
I wonder if they'll wait until 28 Oct, to pile pressure on MPs to get this WA through

It will be very interesting / nerve-wracking to see how long the EU take to respond

The EU have already said this afternoon that if Boris asks for an extension they will grant one.

Yes, Misti. Agreed.

Labour do have a Brexit policy.

Simplifying muchly, it's WA + PD of Norway+ (with WA premises on final Norway +) which then goes to a PV.

It's not fair to say they don't have a Brexit policy.

Sadly, it's hypothetical because they are unlikely to be in power any time soon. 🤷‍♀️

Yes, Misti, I was outside Parliament today - and that seemed to be where there was most representation of EU nationals.

I don't think people understand how visceral this is.

When I read about elderly people in the UK for decades being forced to apply to stay in their own homes under threat of deportation, in a process that for older people is often hard to navigate, I quite literally wish serious illness and death upon the people who support this.

And I'm a mild-mannered 50-something economist with no party allegiances, not a hot-headed young political operative.

Yes cat, but whatever the reasons for causing more uncertainty, if at least out of decency and to confirm that the UK isn't entirely populated by selfish twats, I would have thought it at least a natural thing that apologies to the EU would have been included somewhere in someone's HoC speech today.

But no MP today gave the EU any thought at all - just more me, me, me stuff. No excuses, no apologies, nothing.

And anyone that posts here about it - it's just an afterthought, a little tack on, you needed to be reminded. Shows really how me, me, me and selfish the Remain camp really is.

"The EU have already said this afternoon that if Boris asks for an extension they will grant one"

Did I miss that ?
The last I heard was that different leaders have different opinions
e.g. Macron indicated he was against a further extension, Merkel is for allowing an extension

I'd expect they would extend, but maybe waitig until the last few days, in the hope that the WA would be passed before then

But they haven't spoken out to the public or in the media about what type of Brexit they want. Lib dems want none, what do labour want? Do they want a Norway +, do they want no brexit, do they want a second referendum? As far as I can see they keep saying what they don't want but that is all. For the main opposition they are not very reliable. Why should people vote for them, they don't give a feeling of confidence. I'm not from the UK but from the outside looking in the conservative are determined to ruin the UK with Brexit and Labour just seem to moan.

I see that the gaslighting has been turned on extra high tonight.

I'm not from the UK but from the outside looking in the conservative are determined to ruin the UK with Brexit and Labour just seem to moan.

This is a fairly accurate summary as it happens. Unfortunately.

But it's not up to the opposition to negotiate a deal. When there is a GE you'll be able to read their manifesto.

Viola I don't think I can explain it in words any more clearly.

And we're too far apart for me to use flipcharts or interpretive dance.
☹️

I think we must accept it's going to remain of the order of the Orphic mysteries to you, my Love.

Shows really how me, me, me and selfish the Remain camp really is.

I hope this wasn't typed with a straight face. A leaver calling remainers selfish is hypocrisy of the highest order. Pot, meet kettle.