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Original poster

Westminstenders: Super Saturday

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 18/10/2019 23:02

Parliament sits on a Saturday for the first time since the Falklands.

A deal has been reached with the EU. Its utterly shite and worse for the UK than May's deal. It even leaves no deal as an option after transition.

The DUP don't like it. They got predictably shafted.

Tomorrow is a debate and vote on the deal. Amendments are key, in particular the Letwin amendment which seeks to close a loophole in the Benn Act and stop the Deal being adopted tomorrow, instead forcing the ultimate decision over the deal to a later date and forcing an extension.

Which the EU may or may not agree to.

There is also talk of forcing another ref via amendments but this, unlike the Letwin amendment is unlikely to pass.

The vote tomorrow looks to be very tight. The Letwin amendment passes looks likely to make Johnson fail to have the numbers. However there is talk that enough Labour MPs have decided to back the deal.

There is also a big anti Brexit march in London tomorrow (which runs the risk of having problems with the Extinction Rebellion ban). Good luck to everyone going tomorrow.

See you on the other side (which might now be on this thread!!)

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Voila212 · 19/10/2019 18:29

I know but after 3 votes and now today it seems like it's at a stalemate. Nothing can be done. The brexiteers have become more hardlined wanting a no deal and staunch remainers want Brexit stopped. One side eventually will lose but if no deal becomes the result then everyone will suffer. Mps should at least have some kind of plan, the UK isn't the only country who will be affected by a no deal Brexit.

thecatfromjapan · 19/10/2019 18:29

Honestly, I think it's really time to agitate for a PV.

We're a few MPs short - but I think Labour have (finally) pivoted to PV before GE. The fact they weren't there was quite an obstruction before.

It's worth the push.

(Though I know it's no-one's first choice!).

But ... I think we always knew that PV would come into play when the implacable, unreconcilable awfulness of Brexit was revealed - with a deadlocked Parliamdnt.

And here we are.

Driedlimes · 19/10/2019 18:30

Interesting that most remainers ( myself included) would compromise on a Norway plus deal.

What compromise are leavers prepared to make? Nothing - they just become more & more extreme.

@BigChocFrenzy you talk such sense.

The referendum result was hijacked & distorted by a truly despicable cabal & May did not have the leadership quality to rise above them.

prettybird · 19/10/2019 18:30

Snowy - I've not seen the Mark Carney interview but I had pondered to dh earlier today whether the context of his comments was being misconstrued.

Same thing happened with Mark Carney's Press statement and press conference on the Scottish currency options ("I'm a technocrat....") during the Indyref. We saw the whole thing, including the Q&As and what was reported was a travesty of what he'd actually said Hmm

NoWordForFluffy · 19/10/2019 18:31

It's the leavers in Parliament who've failed to vote to leave, Louise. If all of the Tories plus the DUP had voted for the WA, we'd have left by now. Stop blaming the rest of Parliament for the Tory leavers' failures.

thecatfromjapan · 19/10/2019 18:31

It is mad that Norway + is now impossible.

🤷‍♀️

Mistigri · 19/10/2019 18:32

The indicative votes from the spring were not encouraging in that regard.

Last spring might as well be last century in political terms.

No one would have bet last spring on the DUP possibly supporting a PV amendment.

Hoooo · 19/10/2019 18:32

fluffy 👏

thecatfromjapan · 19/10/2019 18:33

None of it matters now, though.

It's Johnson's deal or nothing,

And Johnson's deal fucks with the GFA and fucks the economy.

LouiseCollins28 · 19/10/2019 18:33

Hooo , I agree with you, insofar as 52:48 is not a mandate for “No Deal” Brexit. Parliament has now been precsented with 2 different deals agreed by 2 different prime ministers and has said “No” essentially 4 times, including today’s.

It is hard to escape the conclusion that there is no form of Brexit deal that Parliament will support, they have refused to give such support when asked on even an “indicative” vote.

wondering7777 · 19/10/2019 18:33

I know but after 3 votes and now today it seems like it's at a stalemate. Nothing can be done.

I think the only thing that can be done is a second ref - Boris’s deal vs remain. If parliament can’t decide then put it to the people. It’s now the only option we have to break the stalemate once and for all.

Voila212 · 19/10/2019 18:37

I hope they do wondering but can't see it happening. Boris seems determined to jump of the cliff either with his deal or no deal. The opposition have been very disappointing in the last few weeks, they seem to have no plan.

smilethoyourheartisbreaking · 19/10/2019 18:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NoWordForFluffy · 19/10/2019 18:37

Exactly. Let somebody else decide. It makes sense really. And saves Parliament tying itself in knots trying to work out what is wanted!

JRM even said that this was a feasible plan ages ago.

MarmotMorning · 19/10/2019 18:38

When/ will a PV motion come before the commons?

Mistigri · 19/10/2019 18:40

I imagine that when the withdrawal bill is voted on, someone will try to attach a PV amendment and that all things being equal Bercow will allow it.

Voila212 · 19/10/2019 18:41

If there are other deals why haven't Labour or other opposition presented them? Sometimes it's easy to complain from the opposition side but they have not shown or spoken of an alternative deal. As far as I can see there all noise but no substance.

HateIsNotGood · 19/10/2019 18:42

Without blaming anyone, or going through the if so and so did this and if they had done that, we wouldn't be here, where we are now.

Can no one here yet admit that the UK HoC today didn't consider them at all? They didn't. Name one MP who stated today any concern for the EU27 citizens who also are being negatively impacted by the UKs uncertainty.

I don't think many Remainers really do understand the concept of 'harmony' for the greater good. For the greater good, for the EU at least, let the UK leave with this new deal. And then put all your efforts into getting the UK back in if it doesn't work out.

OublietteBravo · 19/10/2019 18:42

Yes there are deals Parliament would support.

Judging by the indicative votes earlier this year, WA+CU would probably have been approved by Parliament.

Driedlimes · 19/10/2019 18:42

Customs union came close to support as an option.

Wonder how the anti no deal HoC majority will amend any proposed legislation to close the real loophole (risk of no deal post transition period.)

TheOliphantintheRoom · 19/10/2019 18:42

Iain Duncan Smith on C4 news now. Is he pissed??!!

Mistigri · 19/10/2019 18:42

If there are other deals why haven't Labour or other opposition presented them?

Is this a serious question? Because Labour is not in government, which means that it cannot negotiate a Brexit deal or present that deal to the house.

Hazardd · 19/10/2019 18:43

Haven't been reading but hope you are all ok (and discussed the pharmacy report + coverage from a few wks back!)

Just plopping in to say we've had it confirmed twice now dp's meds shortage is the result of brexit. Pharmacies have stated clearly the shortages are unprecedented which I'm sure you all know. Johnson's deal would create a small period of certainty before reality bites again and things will continue spiralling into shit. The same is true for May's deal but to a lesser extent.... sorry i know there still might be some Tories or May fans up in here

But whatever it's only disabled and sick people who gives a flying fuck about them, amiright leavers and Tories?!

Lots of love and thanks to anyone whose marched today.

Plopping out...

LouiseCollins28 · 19/10/2019 18:44

There is currently no form of deal Parliament has expressed support for. Parliament has been back sitting for weeks. Had the opposition parties wanted to seek indicative support for an alternative deal to the one the Johnson government was negotiating with our European partners they have had ample opportunity. They haven’t done it, because they want to stop Brexit entirely.

Snowy111 · 19/10/2019 18:45

Trouble is with a PV on BJ, no one has a clue what the Bj deal means as he’s promised different things to different MPs! It could easily even mean no deal Hmm