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Brexit
Original poster

Westminstenders: Super Saturday

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 18/10/2019 23:02

Parliament sits on a Saturday for the first time since the Falklands.

A deal has been reached with the EU. Its utterly shite and worse for the UK than May's deal. It even leaves no deal as an option after transition.

The DUP don't like it. They got predictably shafted.

Tomorrow is a debate and vote on the deal. Amendments are key, in particular the Letwin amendment which seeks to close a loophole in the Benn Act and stop the Deal being adopted tomorrow, instead forcing the ultimate decision over the deal to a later date and forcing an extension.

Which the EU may or may not agree to.

There is also talk of forcing another ref via amendments but this, unlike the Letwin amendment is unlikely to pass.

The vote tomorrow looks to be very tight. The Letwin amendment passes looks likely to make Johnson fail to have the numbers. However there is talk that enough Labour MPs have decided to back the deal.

There is also a big anti Brexit march in London tomorrow (which runs the risk of having problems with the Extinction Rebellion ban). Good luck to everyone going tomorrow.

See you on the other side (which might now be on this thread!!)

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thecatfromjapan · 19/10/2019 18:14

Re-setting, negotiating Norway + (with its passporting for the City), would be sensible, Louise.

But I suspect people like you would go ape-shit about having to wait (it would take time.

It would be a lot better for the country, though. And it is, indeed, what Gove promises.

thecatfromjapan · 19/10/2019 18:14

Promised

wondering7777 · 19/10/2019 18:14

Yeah that’s a great idea let’s just totally ignore 17.4 million voters! FFS!

Leave voters haven’t been ignored though. The government has been working for over three years to try to implement the leave vote, spending billions of pounds in the process, but despite their efforts they haven’t been able to find a satisfactory way to do so.

BigChocFrenzy · 19/10/2019 18:15

I agree with Misti
SInce the ref, I've thought a very soft Brexit would be the best way forward

thecatfromjapan · 19/10/2019 18:15

Anyway, Norway + isn't on offer.

The arithmetic in Parliament gives us Johnson's Deal and nothing else.

So ... here we are.

Any other Deal is purely hypothetical and in the realms of the subjunctive.

Butterymuffin · 19/10/2019 18:16

Grieve: Johnson has brought this on by total breakdown of trust between him and large swathes of the Commons.

TheMShip · 19/10/2019 18:16

I have not changed my opinion of yesterday that the BJ deal, subject to appropriate scrutiny and closing of loopholes (eg written into the WA that transition must be extended if no trade agreement made), is the least worst feasible option right now.

Jaichangecentfoisdenom · 19/10/2019 18:16

But it's a great idea to ignore the other roughly 30 million of the electorate who didn't vote leave or who were blocked from voting at all because of cheating by the Tory party? Right. Democracy in action, sure.

thecatfromjapan · 19/10/2019 18:18

I don't know, MShip. It knocks the stuffing out of our economy.

Voila212 · 19/10/2019 18:19

Mistigirl hard brexiteers won't agree to that as It would mean staying in the single market and customs union. Why would they vote for it if they wouldn't vote for Mays deal. Are remain mps gambling with Boris deal risk a no deal ?

Hoooo · 19/10/2019 18:19

louise
48:52 is not a mandate for a disastrous no deal brexit. Not a good idea to ignore 16 million + voters either!
Along with - I suspect - most of the posters on here I'd be ok with single market and customs union (which dear old Nige was quite keen on at one point...)
Sadly, thanks to TM and her ridiculous ERG placating language, no deal is now seen as an actual viable option instead of the insanity it is.
No idea what the answer is.

thecatfromjapan · 19/10/2019 18:20

And ... I actually do care about stuff like the economy and income and money.

I like all the idealism of the pro-EU stuff ... but I love having a buoyant economy and industries and farming and stuff.

Mistigri · 19/10/2019 18:21

*Anyway, Norway + isn't on offer.

The arithmetic in Parliament gives us Johnson's Deal and nothing else.*

It isn't on offer because no one has asked for it. However, it is clear to me that the arithmetic in parliament would be favourable to a Norway deal, on the assumption that the government whipped for it. It would be supported by Labour as it would pass their 6 tests, by the DUP because no border, and by most of the tories who voted for May's deal.

TheMShip · 19/10/2019 18:21

cat yes it does. And that stinks. But I can't see any feasible better option given the current Parliament. Not much will change right away in transition and there would almost certainly be an immediate GE after, which is an opportunity to change the direction of travel for future arrangements with the EU.

thecatfromjapan · 19/10/2019 18:21

What we might have had if May hadn't been so tunnel-visioned really is one of the great 'what ifs' of history.

MockersthefeMANist · 19/10/2019 18:22

If people vote for the moon on a stick, it is not responsible or kind to indulge them.

We are where we are now because Brexit is such a stupid idea.

Referendum and then Revoke.

TheMShip · 19/10/2019 18:22

@Voila212 you didn't ask us what was feasible, you asked us what we'd be happy with.

thecatfromjapan · 19/10/2019 18:23

Yes. In reality, I think we're going to see some amendments added to Johnson's Deal.

If we're lucky - it will go to a PV.

If we're not ... we get to suck it up.

Those are the options now.

There aren't any other Deals in the pipeline. 🤷‍♀️

TheMShip · 19/10/2019 18:24

@mistigri However, it is clear to me that the arithmetic in parliament would be favourable to a Norway deal, on the assumption that the government whipped for it.

The indicative votes from the spring were not encouraging in that regard.

TheMShip · 19/10/2019 18:25

cat Yes. In reality, I think we're going to see some amendments added to Johnson's Deal.

If we're lucky - it will go to a PV.

I think it's unlikely, but will be very happy if it does.

thecatfromjapan · 19/10/2019 18:26

No-one is going to negotiate for Norway + now.

Labour might have - but they won't win a GE ...

So, we're stuck with Johnson's Deal.

LouiseCollins28 · 19/10/2019 18:26

The government have been trying to get a withdral Deal since triggering article 50. Implementing the vote to leave can be done with a deal or without one, I’d much, much prefer “with a deal”

Members of Parliament, however, have been working to avoid implementing the result since triggering article 50 and in some cases before that. That’s what been going on for 3 1/2 years.

If we Revoke, that’s it. The idea that we can revoke and then it will be revisited at some future point that isn’t decades away is laughable.

Mistigri · 19/10/2019 18:27

Voilà well, we are talking hypotheticals here of course but a soft Brexit deal supported by Labour would not need the hardliners in the ERG. It would be supported by moderate Tories and probably by the DUP.

smilethoyourheartisbreaking · 19/10/2019 18:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Mistigri · 19/10/2019 18:28

*No-one is going to negotiate for Norway + now.

Labour might have - but they won't win a GE ...*

I agree with that. Nevertheless it remains true that given the current parliamentary arithmetic, a Norway Brexit deal would probably pass.

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