Westminstenders: Super Saturday

[RedToothBrush]

Parliament sits on a Saturday for the first time since the Falklands.

A deal has been reached with the EU. Its utterly shite and worse for the UK than May's deal. It even leaves no deal as an option after transition.

The DUP don't like it. They got predictably shafted.

Tomorrow is a debate and vote on the deal. Amendments are key, in particular the Letwin amendment which seeks to close a loophole in the Benn Act and stop the Deal being adopted tomorrow, instead forcing the ultimate decision over the deal to a later date and forcing an extension.

Which the EU may or may not agree to.

There is also talk of forcing another ref via amendments but this, unlike the Letwin amendment is unlikely to pass.

The vote tomorrow looks to be very tight. The Letwin amendment passes looks likely to make Johnson fail to have the numbers. However there is talk that enough Labour MPs have decided to back the deal.

There is also a big anti Brexit march in London tomorrow (which runs the risk of having problems with the Extinction Rebellion ban). Good luck to everyone going tomorrow.

See you on the other side (which might now be on this thread!!)

The voters will never forgive them. Keeping business in limbo for more than 3 years.

Mark Carney and Sir Stuart Rose both said today’s deal needs to pass in the interests of business. Are they forgetting that we could still remain if we get a GE/second ref?

Louise A WA would pass if all the Leave MPs could agree on what they want, but that's been the problem all along:

The vulture capitalists who want Brexit for No Deal looting
vs those who want the 51st US state status
vs medium hard - like May's WA
vs soft Leavers who want Norway++
vs those who want NI to be treated identically to GB
vs ......

Some Leavers won't vote for anybody else's Brexit but their special one

This is what happens when you have a referendum where one option can mean such different things to different people

There should have been a specific Leave option which was feasible, not a fantasy of keeping all EU benefits without the duties.
If Leave had won that type of specific ref, then the govt could have negotiated it and it would have passed - because the wishes of the people would have been clear

Or the govt right could have offered a final ref on the actual WA that had been achieved, not the fantay that Farage & BJ lied about to get a Leave win.

...

“pre-approved?!” No way, not buying that. For us to Leave with a deal our Parliament must vote for one.

Someone during points of order was talking about whether exactly the same bill could be presented on two consecutive sittings which is reason I thought it was WA, after thinking initially it was something different. I am now officially confused .

I think Labour are going to seek a PV before a GE ...

This would be much better for them electorally, surely?

I've been saying since the start that an event of this magnitude needed a GNU and proper cross-party consultation. That's what the last General Election result called for: that's what such a close result in 2016 called for too imo. Why would no one just be sensible and listen to meeeee .

We can't blame MPs for not voting for something that would hammer trade & the economy for decades, cause a long recession, that would make voters poorer

MPs learned that even though people voted for austerity in 2010, they were angry enough at the rl consequences to turn to populists a few years later

MPs are afraid both of the country becoming much poorer and the political consequences of that

Can anyone link to what Stuart rose has said on the BJ deal? I keep seeing MC misquoted, including by Steve Barclay today, and I know he’s misquoted because I saw the MC interview, so I suspect SR is being misquoted by leavers too

Sorry BigChoc but no.

ERG confirmed they would vote for deal today and then voted against Letwin thereby confirming this intent. How many of the cross-party “MPs for a Deal” voted for one today? Single figures from what I could see.

MPs learned that even though people voted for austerity in 2010, they were angry enough at the rl consequences to turn to populists a few years later

MPs need to learn what ordinary voters have known for years - that GE votes are not representative of what the country wants. They give us a very narrow range of options there too.

I think Labour are going to seek a PV before a GE ... I thought Emily Thornberry was going to go to the EU and get a new deal then the 2nd Ref would have Remain/New deal on the ballot.

@Snowy111 here’s what Stuart Rose said - he wrote the piece so definitely not misquoted!

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7589805/Do-deal-today-says-former-Remain-campaign-chief-STUART-ROSE.html

MPs are afraid both of the country becoming much poorer and the political consequences of that No MPs are afraid of losing their cosy billet by being deselected apart from a few exceptions.

derxa If that were the only motivation, then all those Tory rebels, the 22 and the earlier lot, would just have toed the party line

Absolutely riveting to hear what Farage has to say.

I’m just praying we can get a second ref out of this - Boris’s deal vs remain. How likely do people think that is?

Ooooooh, snarky narky vicious little hissyfit on R4 just now from Steve Baker. Basically, anyone who's objective agrees with him that he's right, and it's a disgrace that the BBC does not say so.

Did your team lose today, Steve?

derxa If that were the only motivation, then all those Tory rebels, the 22 and the earlier lot, would just have toed the party line I said there were exceptions.

Louise Letwin prevents BJ and the ERG tricking everyone into letting him off requesting the extension,
then not putting forward the additional legislation to enable the WA

That would mean a No Deal on 31 October

If they trusted BJ, then Letwin would not have passed
However, anyone who trusts BJ to keep his word shouldn't be let out alone

It is perfectly possible for the WA to pass, providing all the accompanying legislation is passed too

Also, imo MPs should have time to analyse the WA, which is about 500 pages and will determine the country's future for decades to come

Outrageous just to expect MPs to pass it on the nod and trust in BJ

Nice that Mrs May turned up today. Even she put the boot into Johnson.
And god knows she can identify with failure.

www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2019/oct/19/brexit-deal-how-did-your-mp-vote-on-the-letwin-amenment

Which conservative rebels are those? 0 MPs who currently take the Conservative whip voted for the amendment, I.e. against a deal, according to the Guardian.

Soorry bad link

www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2019/oct/19/brexit-deal-how-did-your-mp-vote-on-the-letwin-amendment

Thanks wondering. Fair ‘nuff, don’t think SR was misquoted as much as MC, but if that’s all the backing BJ deal has had from business it’s hardly resounding.

That was the word which kept coming up today, trust - usually in the phrase ‘matter of trust’ and referring to it as in lack of. You can’t go spend most of your career lying over and over again and expect people to trust you. But he is well ware of that and has made the calculation that the benefits of lying outweigh the consequences.