Westminstenders: DUP says no

[TheMShip]

I don't really feel qualified to start a Westminstenders thread but we need a new one....

Why can’t Parliament start on Saturday by having a free vote, do you wish to respect the result of the 2016 ref, Y. N
Then if yes, do with leave with BJ/TM deal or no deal
Then if no do we just revoke or have another referendum
Or something very similar, seems easy enough

Sorry if this has already asked, I only read back a couple of a hundred posts, but is the new WA even legal. J Maugham is back in court today (?) as there is something in UK law that says you can't have different customs in different parts of the UK.

Very interesting! It sounds from the article that it’s being heard in court this morning?

If it would help with honest voting, hold the ballots in secret

If it would help with honest voting, hold the ballots in secret

Absolutely not - our useless MPs need to be held publicly accountable for the stupid choices they make.

Dongdingdong How can they be held accountable when they just go with the whip or be sacked

Woop woop!

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/18/brexit-extension-unavoidable-if-mps-reject-deal-says-merkel

Hester54

If we lived in a true democracy and were lead by people that actually cared about their country and it's people this would be easy - you are right.

In essence - it isn't easy because Boris and his government just don't want this to happen. It's not on their agenda, is it?

ex-Taoiseach Ahern:
Border poll is now likely within a decade

I wonder when Arlene will quit

• several papers hammer her as a DUPe in cartoons. The Brexit press are gloating

wondering7777 Then what, it’s will be never ending, with business not being able to plan etc, we need it sorting one way or another

Dongdingdong How can they be held accountable when they just go with the whip or be sacked

I for one want to know whether my MP voted for or against this deal as if it’s for, I won’t be voting for them in the next election. Don’t you want to know too? We live in a democracy and MPs are public servants - secret voting goes completely against democratic principles.

Hester very rarely that I agree with you, but I do here:
A free vote - but for all parties and on all options

I agree that theoretically it would need to be secret to be truly free, but that's not possible in our HoC system / Constitution

Every vote, with who voted how, is always a matter of public record

Dusty01 Other non government additions have been voted through

btw, if we'd had a secret vote on A50, I suspect it would not have been invoked in the first place

Dongdingdong I just like many other people just want this to move forward one way or another, if it takes a secret ballot, so be it, my one vote either way is unlikely to make much difference to mu Mp

BigChocFrenzy Then Parliament only has itself to blame for the position they are in.

The Tories will do pretty much anything to stay in power. Is that the only hope of them agreeing to an Indyref 2? As has been pointed out, Scotland leaving the UK gives the Conservatives an electoral advantage.

Good

It won't be easily sorted one way or another. If we voted for revoke - and set up a proper commission to examine the options, and then began to tackle the real problems of the country, then I think many would conveniently forget about Brexit and get on with their lives.

No Deal and we start running around selling off as much of the country as we can to the Americans. Johnson's deal - more aggro as the negotiations start in earnest, with the UK as a supplicant.

Tory Remainer MPs will be well aware that a vote against must be explained to a usually very Brexity local party who can deselect them

Anyway, very few Tory MPs believe passionately in the EU
Many who supported Remain did so because that was what the then PM, Cameron, supported
and moved effortlessly to the new party line of Brexit

Even the Tory rebels who left the party to prevent No Deal, would mostly support any deal, e.g. Soames

Remember too, that some of them still hope to get the peerages they would normally have received as retiring Tory bigwigs

My fear with any deal was always the slow chipping away of rights, so subtle that it passes most people by.

Yup slow and steady wins this race. The ERG may recline laconically but they are winning.

I know people on here do loads but another thing people in appropriate sectors should do in the future is an old fashioned thing. People should join a union or start a new one because the balance of bargaining power is being tipped towards people like JRM . When this has happened in the past unions have been essential.

What I feel so frustrated by though is that it is clear now to most people that Boris is a dictator of some sorts.

There seems to be no way of protecting the UK and it's citizens. Someone (I think it was DG Rossetti said a long time ago that if the Monarch had greater power - the PM could be curtailed). Sorry I'm losing the vocabulary to explain what I mean.

Is there someone - anyone that could take back control now? We need to get rid of this current government that is intent on breaking everything apart for their own ends, of course. But on Saturday - who could, how can this be slowed down and stopped?

It's crazy that we live in a so called democracy and yet no-one has the ability to save us from these despots.

Once Nicola gets her IndyRef2, do the (English) Tories even bother to campaign against?

I think we are in the dying moments (on a historical timescale) of the British empire: I am 55 and fully expect to see a united Ireland and an independent Scotland before I retire.

Cameron supports deal
(and maybe he should avoid porcine references)

Likely then that nearly all Tories who supported Remain during the ref campaign will vote for this

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/17/greased-piglet-boris-johnson-could-pass-deal-says-david-cameron

“The thing about the greased piglet is that he manages to slip through other people’s hands where mere mortals fail.”

That was the optimistic assessment of Boris Johnson’s chances of getting his Brexit deal through parliament
......

“I think it’s much better to leave with a deal, and I think Boris has done well to achieve that deal.
I hope he’ll get it through parliament,

I suspect he will but it will be tight.”

This why I kept posting that the Rebel Alliance had to get rid of BJ - because of what he could do with PM powers

I admit I never dreamt of dumping NI to negotiate an ERG Brexit for GB