Westminstenders: DUP says no

[TheMShip]

I don't really feel qualified to start a Westminstenders thread but we need a new one....

Also Fluffy thinking about it all the writing and marching and keyboard activism has achieved something - just not enough.

My friend who works for a Labour MP told me in 2016 that Labour’s post ref policy was to gauge the public shift, staying one small step ahead. They have shifted position since 2016. Don’t get me wrong I’m not saying the front bench have been the opposition we all needed. But you could argue that because there hasn’t been enough marching and writing the public are responsible for Labour’s fence sitting.
It’s what comes first public shift or policy shift- chicken and egg in a interminable static circle.

A decent opposition wouldn't have needed a shove though, that's my point!

10 years is optimistic. Tories with a mandate WILL secure their ruling future with draconian measures and will shove it all through Parliament in a correct fashion - voter I.D., boundary changes are only the start - formal closure of right to protest, linking employment with political activity, use of SM digital to identify 'trouble makers'. Read any dystopian novel ( Handmaids Tale reminds us all of the measures Atwood wrote of in there have been used in various societies) and you have a blue print.

@NoWordForFluffy very possibly !
There are lots of people on here with whom I agree.

Paul Waugh@paulwaugh
.@edvaizey says he will back PM's deal but only if he gets 'guarantees we won't get a no-deal by default' if legislation not passed by Oct 31.
The big fear among Remainers is Benn Act loophole means Brexiteers can pass PM's deal Sat, then kill bill to enact it + run down clock

Which is why there may well be moves on Saturday to pass amendment to Meaningful Vote that would rectify that loophole.

@PigeonofDoom , I lived through Thatcher as a teenager and young adult. I know all about a decimated community and a generation without hope and wouldn't wish it on anyone. I also know about the devastating effect of violence in NI.
I despise the DUP who are obviously the UVF in suits. But....

Paul Brand @paulbranditv
NEW: Labour MPs are thinking very carefully before backing PM’s deal. They are reading it line by line. One tells me “I think people know I am not for nagging, I make my own mind up”.

@PigeonofDoom's post is one of them.
Also watch for the resurgence of loyalist violence in NI...
For anyone who knows Belfast, those are the areas which would scare me most - Shankill feels like violence could erupt any minute, loyalist murals are designed to provoke fear etc.

What are people holding out for if it doesn’t pass?

Each time we go through the ringer it most likely gets worse

@PigeonofDoom - completely agree about recovering from this deal and comparing it to Tory policies and how they have damaged communities that have never recovered. My husband and I had that exact discussion last night. I was (andstill am ) despairing about this deal - the loss of workers tights, health and safety and food standards...... but then said the danger of people dying due to no deal. His point was no deal is short - ish . This deal jettisons standards that could have a real human cost - and that is forever(well probably our lifetime).
I don't know how any Labour MP can vote for it.

But you could argue that because there hasn’t been enough marching and writing the public are responsible for Labour’s fence sitting.

Sorry, but how can you possibly blame the public?! This is Brexiteer Corbyn’s responsibility and his alone. And I don’t care if I get flamed for that because it’s the truth.

I think the problem is that 1) we have evolved into a politically disenfranchised society (FPTP) 2) we have become a society where attention to detail is perceived as difficult, tedious and unnecessary, the preserve of geeks and pedants, and one in which objective truth is increasingly rejected (eg as in the so called "gender debate").
Consequently, when faced with difficult issues that require thinking through, people just throw up their hands and say they can't cope. This is encouraged (shamefully) by institutions such as the BBC. I can't say how many times I've heard interviewers and presenters on flagship news programmes imply or say directly that topics such as those surrounding Brexit are too tiresome or difficult to bother their listeners silly little heads with. It makes me want to scream.

So basically his bullying tactics have scared people and are working. ...

@MrPan in other circumstances I would say that this is a very pessimistic view of the future and that you are seeing massive issues when there isn’t any need fir it.
BUT....
This is a government/party who was happy to see anti terrorise laws to stop people from rallying against fracking.
It’s a government who has walked over the most vulnerable wo a word of protest if the population.
Etc....
Tatcher, at least, wasn’t using some manipulations to get what she wanted, incl lies, unlawful acts etc....

Exactly that, flouncy. Let BoZo fuck it up before a GE!

Forgot to number my last point there. Ahh for attention to detail.

Direct line between destruction of industrial communities & unions ( which provided & encouraged education & political discourse) & support for Brexit amongst communities most likely to suffer.
Thatcher was bloody effective

This is Brexiteer Corbyn’s responsibility and his alone. And I don’t care if I get flamed for that because it’s the truth.

Cool story bro

This is the second time you've said you think you'll get flamed for your response, its as if you hadnt read the pp's who told you that there is only about a handful of people who populate the threads are Corbyn fans, I'm just the really vocal one

Labour not whiping MPs is basically them refusing to take a stance.
I’m fed up of a opposition party that refuses to make a stance. We would have been better with JC coming out as a proper leaver right at the start. This would have allowed all the remainders etc... to take stock (and create a new party/coalition to have a real opposition). I miss TM, Assad she was she wasn’t THAT bad.

If the deal goes through, no way should labour give Boris a GE.

Oh don’t worry, they won’t. Corbyn seems to avoid them at all costs.

Just because it appeases one side of the divide does not mean it will appease the other.

Indeed, it specifically inflames one side. Any impact on the current status quo of the Union, anything that pertains to form of union with ireland - could potentially trigger Loyalist violence. The whole point of those paramilitaries was to protect NI’s place in the union.

I’m actually surprised at the EU. At the very least I would expect protest and civil disorder. But paramilitaries were responsible for over 900 deaths - violence can never be ruled out. And to be fair they have been threatening it. No-one can say they were weren’t warned.

@Driedlimes yes she was (and IMO not in a good way) but there has never been the level of deceit we are seeing with BJ.
That’s what makes him so dangerous. Even more do due to the lack of opposition

Britain Elects
@britainelects
·
8h
Princes Park (Liverpool) result:

LAB: 73.1% (+5.5)
GRN: 13.8% (-5.6)
LDEM: 8.6% (+3.6)
CON: 4.6% (+1.2)

Labour HOLD.

No TUSC (-4.7) as prev.

Chgs. w/ 2016.

Oh don’t worry, they won’t. Corbyn seems to avoid them at all costs.

Ah BXP or Tory bot I get ya now

This is the second time you've said you think you'll get flamed for your response, its as if you hadnt read the pp's who told you that there is only about a handful of people who populate the threads are Corbyn fans, I'm just the really vocal one

Like I said - I don’t care what you think. The sooner we get a true remainer in charge of the Labour party the better - although it’s probably too late now. The damage is done.