Westminstenders: DUP says no

[TheMShip]

I don't really feel qualified to start a Westminstenders thread but we need a new one....

Balance of Power
@BalancePowerUK
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1m
Mark Field (CON, Cities of London and Westminster) will not be standing at the next Parliamentary General Election.

Oakenbeach The DUP was useful cover for those in the ERG who were in reality only opposed to the level playing field terms in May's WA

Now that the LPF is only in the PD, the DUP - and the faux concern for the Union - can be dumped

twitter.com/thatginamiller
Been discussing
@BorisJohnson
revised Withdrawal Agreement with a brilliant lawyer - Anneli Howard. Basically it's the May Deal with about 6 changes to the PD & 2 amended paras to the NI Protocol. If the Benn Act is akin to a surrender Act, this WA is a self-imposed knee capping

Mark Field, who manhandled the female Extinction Rebellion protestor ?
No loss

< waves to Poster00 & her famously stoic heart >

catfromjapan
You have humungous faith that Remain would decisively win a referendum
but have provided zilch evidence

the margin of error on polls is around 5%
so where are the polls showing >15% margin for remain
which is what would be needed to settle this

Please show me
I'd love to believe
but I have this atheist obsession with evidence

Well, you don't have evidence Remain won't win, Listsn.

So I'm going to stick with optimism - because it sure beats gloomy pessimism. 😁

Thank you once again BCF.

And also dammit! Just out in the car with dd and she says we drove past our Tory Rebel MP!!! If I'd seen him I would have screeched to a halt, grabbed him by the lapels and yelled at him to tell me how he's going to vote on Saturday. Then I could have usefully reported back here!

Saturday will be an absolutely key day

Have we miscalculated and the WA goes through ?

If not, are the votes there for Letwin's amendment calling for a PV ?

If not that either, WTF happens next ?
Just the extension - assuming it has been offered .... but to do what ? Have a GE ?

japan
Irrefutable evidence - classic Fortean fail ;-)
I am pessimistic about another referendum vote because I observe and watch.
I have no evidence to think it would not be bad - even the Electoral Commission are concerned.
We have a "representative democracy" - lets work with that.

tobee SInce you are a dedicated Westministender, can you & sharp-eyed MiniTobee return and hunt him down ? 😂

If there is another narrow Leave win - and a likely repeat of the dirty money and the even dirtier psyops - would Westministenders still accept the result ?

I have this atheist obsession with evidence

Strictly there’s no more evidence for an atheistic position than any other.

Not sure what evidence you’re expecting on a vote that hasn’t been held yet.

Not sure what evidence you’re expecting on a vote that hasn’t been held yet.
15% poll margins would be a start

I am pessimistic about another referendum vote because I observe and watch.

I’m not sure why you claim to be observing and watching any more than anyone else.

Pessimism/optimism tends to be a personality trait.

A pessimist and an optimist may interpret the same data according to their turn of mind.

I think remain could win only because for the PV there is a defined leave. Once “leave” is defined I don’t think leavers (I’m excluding batshit brexiteers) will be happy with it. Either BJs deal or Mays deal will not appeal to soft leavers or people who voted wanting more money for the NHS. Hopefully there’s enough of these people to swing it decisively for remain.
It’s my fantasy and I’m sticking with it (fingers in ears la la la)

If there is another narrow Leave win - and a likely repeat of the dirty money and the even dirtier psyops - would Westministenders still accept the result ?

If our democracy is not robust enough to withstand dirty money and psyops and our politicians determined to see through a result that is skewed by that then we would have to.

It would however, still be our democratic right to continue to protest, to fight for alignment and to fight for possible rejoin.

I am annoyed, though, that having spent most of this year battling for a P.V on T.M's W.A vs remain it now looks like the vote would be on Boris' shitty deal vs remain. Accepting this cobbled- together- in- 2 -minutes- piece- of- crap- because- Boris painted- himself- into- a- corner deal will be a lot harder to swallow and a lot worse for the UK than voting on T.M's W.A. I still think we deserve a choice in which W.A we accept as well (NI permitting - if they refuse to be treated differently, then T.M's W.A wins by default)

15% poll margins would be a start

May not be replicated on the day so you’re none the wiser.

I think it could go either way. Remain have been consistently edging it for some time, but not by much.

Remain might just clinch it but I don’t know that we’re going to get to a PV. Nor what whoever is in charge would do with the result if we did.

PMK
Well looking forward to absolutely masses of amendments, going round in circles, lots of whipping, lots of disobedience to whipping, lots of threats, lots of bribing, lots of lies and lots of stressy politicians, literally people trying to save their jobs and did the country and the GFA......such a lot to look forward to on Saturday. The future of our country in the hands of 600+ self serving politicians. great

Sod not did.

Radio says deal will get through just. Ffs! It's worse than TM deal! Bonkers!

This will be controversial but I have no problem with LPF etc being moved from the WA to the PD.

I want the WA to pass, and then there can be a real debate about our future relationship with the EU at a GE. If people don’t want a Singapore-on-Thames, they can vote accordingly. If Remainers vote down the WA, and force a GE first, there’s a high chance the Tories will win on the back of understandable impatience of much of the public to “get Brexit done” and anger that a deal to achieve this has been thwarted. This will
dominate rather than our future relationship with the EU. The Tories will then have 5 years to implement their vision.

pretzels What alternative is there to accepting the result - repeating the referendum over & over ?
Those dirty tricks are probably here to stay

I'm concerned they may also be used in GEs from now on - there is no control of money used outside the UK to carry out targeted psyops inside

The hard right oligarchs have found a way to lean on the scales and shade close results,
so they are unlikely to stop doing something that works for them.

In a 4-way GE, a small swing can significantly change the number of seats.

My post assumes there will be a GE in the coming months.... Even if all the Tory independents returned to the fold, I don’t believe the Tories will have the numbers, especially as the DUP aren’t likely to lend their support now!

"If people don’t want a Singapore-on-Thames, they can vote accordingly."

Unfortunately, we're back to the Nigerian Prince school of voting

I most certainly want the LPF in the WA,
because once again, I doubt if the consequences will be understood through the blaring rightwing propoganda

I would MUCH rather the MPs did the right thing for every resident in their constituencies and forced a revoke

but they are cowards so they will not

remember that under the UK's version of FPTP it is possible to win a seat with 25% of the vote

is that the way we want to go ?

dirty money
disenfranchised poor
minority representatives

shout LOUD on Saturday