Westminstenders: DUP says no

[TheMShip]

I don't really feel qualified to start a Westminstenders thread but we need a new one....

Just from being involved in PV things, Just. And talking to people.

I have a theory that polls massively misrepresent the turn away from Brexit.

If you're phoned by a pollster, you'll say you're still proBrexit. People are stubborn and don't like to lose face.

But I detect a lot of secret misgivings. They may not even be voiced consciously to themselves. But they're there.

And I think a lot of people will just find themselves 'unable' to vote in a second referendum.

Anyway, Corbyn's in favour of a ref before a GE now - so you're going to have to swing behind it. 😉

'British as Finchley' is, indeed, a wee bit imperialist-sounding.

And just wrong.

Anyway, Corbyn's in favour of a ref before a GE now - so you're going to have to swing behind it.

Nope still not a fan of the idea, same as I wasnt a fan when he voted to get A50 triggered

Sorry cat but anecdata means very little in our current climate

Ugh, trying to follow the thread but the dc have not played ball and my head hurts too much to make much sense of anything tonight. Have I got this right: Boris says it's a deal but it's not really a deal, it's worse than TM's WA, NI would be in yet out and rethinking it every 4 years, and the DUP says no anyway, and labour won't vote for it either?

However, Johnson's Deal does make No Deal a possibility further along the line.

Yes and this bears repeating over and over.

Flamingo, yeah that’s pretty much it. GB gets a hard Brexit, the NI backstop has changed to a ‘full-stop’ and it still needs to be approved by Parliament.

I like that as a potential slogan for Remain TemporaryPermanent - although I'd change it slightly: instead of "Take back your future", make it "Take back our future"

The WA was always going to lead to a hard Brexit. May negotiated something open enough to get through (she thought - and was wrong) but always had the scope to turn harder once her successor took over. That was always the plan.

Balance of Power
@BalancePowerUK
·
8m
Nicholas Soames (IND, Mid Sussex) will vote for the Prime Minister’s Brexit Deal.

As an Ulster Unionist (not the political party, but as someone from Ulster who believed in the Union), fuck you, Boris. Comprehensive proof that you don’t give a single shit about the Union or the people of Northern Ireland, if you’re prepared and happy to have what is effectively a border in the Irish Sea. We’ll have a united Ireland in my lifetime if this passes.

@Driedlimes Thank you so much for your post of 14:21: I couldn't have put it better myself.

born That's a sensible suggestion, which I hope they'll do
(Vote on May's WA if BJ's WA is defeated)

"why Varadkar is ok with this"

tobee What Varadkar / Ireland really care about in no border in Ireland.
This WA basically gives a permanent backstop
So they have what they most want

I expect they are sorry that BJ insists on a shit deal for the UK,
but it's really not ireland's problem

Yes, the EU have played a blinder and we've still got to negotiate a trade deal with them. Men against boys unfortunately.

Can I just ask , if the WA passes and we allegedly leave, we still have just over a year in transition where essentially nothing of note will actually change ? Or could Boris et al, end the transition period themselves and basically walk us all off a cliff anyway ? Or does the shiny newish WA prevent that ?

Has this WA been released to the press, in its entirety?

Let's take our future back from the brink

That's my slogan

It's a bit shit, but it'll have to do for now

Who has watched the video of Micheal Gove being interviewed on BBC? His behaviour is seriously off....drunk? Stoned? Neurological deficits?......

We're in a minority, @Fishes
It seems only fair, imo that NI should have a poll on any backstop - but I thought this for May's WA too

The EU TaskForce 50 actually suggested it for the consent part of this WA, but BJ is against

The DUP bitterly oppose any such poll,
both because they hate NI being treated differently by having a separate poll
and because they fear it would be a major step towards a successful border poll on reunification

BJ has never given a damn about NI; nor has most of the ERG
For them, it is all about the Bonfire of workers rights and dragging the UK into the US orbit

The DUP have been even more short-sighted & incompetent than usual, in choosing to support Brexit
This, together with the ruthless venality of the Conservative & Unionist party has led to the proposed backstop in this form

Can I just ask , if the WA passes and we allegedly leave, we still have just over a year in transition where essentially nothing of note will actually change ? Or could Boris et al, end the transition period themselves and basically walk us all off a cliff anyway ? Or does the shiny newish WA prevent that

Don't think they can walk us off a cliff early. But if the transition isn't extended, we have a new no deal cliffedge next December. Oh joy. I can eat this stockpile (maybe, not counting my chickens) and then start another one!

Bet the DUP wished they’d supported Remain now... Their Brexiteer position never made any sense and now the chickens have come home to roost!

That's the worrying thing, if this WA passes most people will think, oh good, it's over, but of course it isn't. It's just beginning.

mrslaughan

Well, Gove does have form for this sort of thing - and not donkey's years ago as he claimed about his snorting habit.

If I remember rightly, his performance at the ballot box that day was very, shall we say, animated?

Indeed, I bet the DUP had voted for the original WA as that was better from a unionist perspective than BJ’s deal. Interesting that so many Tory Brexiteers we’re staunch supporters of the DUP position then, but aren’t now despite the new deal being less ‘unionist’!

frumpety If either of the 2 WAs is passed, it would be a binding international treaty
The transition period is for a fixed period and must run until then.

However, iirc, that is only until 31 Dec 2020, after which both sides can agree to extend