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Brexit

Westminstenders: DUP says no

974 replies

TheMShip · 17/10/2019 13:15

I don't really feel qualified to start a Westminstenders thread but we need a new one....

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thecatfromjapan · 17/10/2019 18:48

That's a very well-written piece by Ian Dunt, DGR.

And he's right - this Deal will be despised in a few years, perhaps even within 12 months, when the Brexit madness recedes.

CendrillonSings · 17/10/2019 18:54

I'm wondering if a GNU is more likely again.

Apart from the fact that Boris just killed it stone dead, sure.

Peregrina · 17/10/2019 18:59

does it want to enter the embrace of America or the EU? It's going to have to pick one.

The answer to that is that Johnson, Rees-Mogg, Farage, Davis etc. do want the embrace of America, and to be a vassal state. The UK public mostly don't, I would say.

tobee · 17/10/2019 19:02

That's interesting @thecatfromjapan as that was what was happening to me re posting as I was moaning on about a few freds back. I thought the latest update had solved it? Hmm. If you're on iOS, I see that they have a new update :- iOS 13.1.3

flouncyfanny · 17/10/2019 19:02

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

yolofish · 17/10/2019 19:06

oh god I am SO bloody confused! So New Deal generally agreed to be crap (despite being presented by Old Etonian Penis Possessor), no one will vote for it, is the best we can hope for now a call for a PV with this deal/Tresseme's deal/Revoke on the agenda? Would the EU even allow that? - and quite frankly I would quite understand if they didnt.

CrunchyCarrot · 17/10/2019 19:13

Chris Grey's excellent blog on where we are now:

chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/

JustAnotherPoster00 · 17/10/2019 19:16

I think there's only one Corbyn supporter on these threads - bless her stoic heart.

Grin
FishesaPlenty · 17/10/2019 19:17

Shouldn't NI have their say on any NI-specific parts of the WA though?

Is there an argument against that?

JustAnotherPoster00 · 17/10/2019 19:17

He's still currently the only party leader that is trying not to ignore swathes of people who voted in the ref, would love to see the workings out that makes Corbyn responsible for May's fuck ups

cherin · 17/10/2019 19:24

What a day! I spent the afternoon near westminster and even the protesters didn’t know anymore what to say. Flags were flapping but people were...puzzled?
Bless the Asian tourists that were snapping pictures anyway, mostly (hopefully) oblivious of the situation. Westminster is showing the status of disarray also in the building, all wrapped up (in scaffolding) as a sick person....

I think we literally are stuck between this deal and no deal. Band-aid treatment.
I can’t possibly survive the stress of another referendum, and the months of agony before they settle on the questions, and the fear that people will think “no deal=no brexit”, and the mistrust of colleagues that I suspect are convinced leavers, and the ones that are superficially thinking that leaving is just the end of it.
I’ve been fatigued. I am too stressed at work and for this.
In the meantime in my anxiety I saw that the USA and turkey have agreed a ceasefire in Syria. I wonder if that’s Trumps move to get his long awaited novel price for peace, which was unfairly given to his predecessor for not having done a thing whilst he wrote an amazing letter full of exclamation marks like a DogMan comic strip.....
I think that says I’m old and cynical. Or need treatment for becoming a conspiracy theorist. Could he have fabricated all this as an electoral prop?

Eyewhisker · 17/10/2019 19:29

Fishes, with all due respect, I think you’re wrong on NI. NI voted to remain and Brexit leads to a greater divergence with the ROI, contrary to the GFA.

All opinion polls in NI since Brexit found a majority in support of the Backstop. In addition, a majority of Stormont assembly members wrote to Donald Tusk to say they were in favour of the backstop.

Although there’s an argument that NI should vote first, it is Brexit which has been against the spirit of the GFA, not this arrangement.

This deal is pure karma for the DUP. They campaigned for the hardest of Brexits to drive N.I. further from the rest of Ireland and have ended up the opposite - cut adrift from Britain and quasi reunified.

thecatfromjapan · 17/10/2019 19:30

My love for Laura Parker is a deep and profound thing.

If only all Labour members and MPs had her spirit of optimism, pragmatism & communicative skills.

She's a major figure in Mimentum and is backing Keir Starmer and Jess Philips to lead a Labour Remain campaign in a Referendum.

Evening Standard

While Labour tears itself apart over anti-Semitism, The Londoner found a pocket of peace in the House of Commons yesterday at a “Labour for a Public Vote” meeting where Momentum chief Laura Parker endorsed Keir Starmer and Jess Phillips to spearhead any potential second referendum Labour campaign for Remain.
Parker, Momentum’s national co-ordinator (who is vying to be selected as Labour’s parliamentary candidate in Enfield North), talked tough, calling for a radically different campaign to 2016 and backed Guardian columnist Polly Toynbee’s suggestion that Starmer and Phillips would be strong campaigners. But she added: “I’ll obviously be excommunicated from Momentum for suggesting that, but that’s an example of the hatchets we’re going to have to bury.” Starmer serves as shadow Brexit secretary but Phillips is known for being an outspoken critic of Jeremy Corbyn.

But it wasn’t all a love-in. In a jibe aimed at Alastair Campbell, Parker said: “The great and the good must be behind the scenes and ideally locked in a cupboard.” And on Tony Blair having a role, she retorted: “We’ve got to present people with something that doesn’t feel like rehashed old soup.”

She also criticised the last campaign for being too male-dominated: “The men screwed it up last time, so we’re going to have the best of things this time. There were no women in the last campaign. I don’t want to fall into lazy sterotypes, but in the end you need a mature group of women sitting in a room with a cup of tea.”

Parker later told The Londoner: “We need more women, less London. That’s not what the Evening Standard wants to hear.” Fair enough. We’re happy as long as the lead campaigner doesn’t take a mini-break during any future campaign. Toynbee had strong words on how the demographics had changed since 2016: “The Grim Reaper has done us many favours. Two million

have died, 2.5 million teens have come of age.” She also suggested stealing “take back control” as a campaign slogan. Dominic Cummings may claim copyright infringement...

thecatfromjapan · 17/10/2019 19:34

@tobee
Thank you.
I feel less alone.
It's driving me demented.
I will hope it resolves.
💐

Hoooo · 17/10/2019 19:36

cat tobee
As usual I find myself nodding along vigorously to your posts x

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 17/10/2019 19:38

Misses point totally, but I love the sound of Mimentum. Grin

SimplySteveRedux · 17/10/2019 19:44

Juncker tells me there ‘must be no prolongation- it has to happen now’ - has Johnson persuaded EU to say it’s genuinely this deal or no deal - no delay?

We're utterly fucked, called our hand and we have nothing in reply. Fully expecting no deal in a fortnight.

Jason118 · 17/10/2019 19:46

There won't be a 'no-deal' in a fortnight. There might be later on though

ListeningQuietly · 17/10/2019 19:47

(a) This deal is shit
(b) May's deal was marginally less shit
(c) No Deal is much more shit
(d) Remain would NOT get a clear win in a referendum
(e) Wine

FishesaPlenty · 17/10/2019 19:51

Eyewhisker You think that NI's agreement should just be assumed then?

I've got no skin in the game at all but it seems to me that a major change like this to the status of NI in relation to ROI and rUK should require a demonstration of some sort of consensus - other than the DUP saying it's OK (or not).

It's not my problem at all though, so as nobody else seems to be making a fuss about it I shall shut up.

thecatfromjapan · 17/10/2019 19:54

Simply, Jason is right. No Deal is not going to happen in a fortnight - the Benn Act prevents it.

However, Johnson's Deal does make No Deal a possibility further along the line.

Listening I do not share your pessimism. I think a Referendum win for Remain is very likely.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 17/10/2019 19:56

I think a Referendum win for Remain is very likely.

Any conclusive evidence of this or just wishful thinking? If it wasnt a convincing win then were right back at square one

thecatfromjapan · 17/10/2019 19:57

Fidhes I'm not sure we're not fussed. More like overwhelmed by the magnitude of shit, frankly.

I mean, there is so much that is truly shocking about this, and there is such a democratic deficit, it's hard to know where to begin. 🤷‍♀️

Eyewhisker · 17/10/2019 19:58

Fishes - I get your point but the alternative - NI leaving as part of the UK with a hard border is very much opposed in NI. The majority of NI assembly members support the backstop, so likely would support this too - see below. This suggests that a simple vote would pass with a majority.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-northern-ireland-49435880

There should be a NI specific referendum on any type of Brexit, but that won’t happen as Scotland and the rest of the UK would be understandably annoyed that they couldn’t get to choose too.

Honestly, I am from NI and it is definitely not as ‘British as Finchley’. I get quite irritated by such phrases as it feels very imperialist.

TemporaryPermanent · 17/10/2019 19:58

A moment of excitement at the thought of another vote... even though I think it might not fix much. But for the slogan - not 'take back control'. Instead 'take back your future'.