Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westminstenders: Showdown

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 13/10/2019 20:22

Big week ahead.

Johnson has until Tuesday Afternoon to get his shit together for the EU.

He thinks it can be down, but still lots to do in that time.

This week we have the Queen's Speech too, which is going to be misused as a party political broadcast.

Remember if the government can't pass the QS, there's a crisis that gets generated as a direct result. Sticking in proposals that any liberal or leftie will struggle with, is deliberately provoking a crisis of that nature. A proposal of that type would have to be anti democratic in nature, like... Ermmm... Voter ID. Hell, well what do you know.

Johnson is still after his election because as it stands he's a passenger stuck in the runaway train of his own creation.

Talk of a deal breakthrough is still overstated too. The DUP and many of the usual ERG suspects have poured water on the idea. And many on the opposition benches are pushing hard on a confirmary ref being needed for a deal - they don't have the numbers yet, but talk is that they are close. We also have loyalist military making threats about an Irish Sea Border solution.

Time for Project Shit Meets Fan.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
40
OhYouBadBadKitten · 15/10/2019 22:55

5 min to go

lonelyplanetmum · 15/10/2019 22:56

Firstly, I’ve never really understood the workers’ rights issue. If the UK population wants them, it can vote in a Government that will deliver them - that’s democracy! Personally I absolutely do want them.

Yes that's absolutely true that a Labour govt could be voted in to reinstate worker's rights. But we have a government with a powerful faction that agitated to leave the EU because the Leaver Tories had wanted to remove these protections for years.

The Leave campaign was predicated on a take back control of our laws basis.This means taking back control of environmental, workers', consumers' and food safety regulations, as those are the areas of the EU joint remit.

The ERG agitated at Cameron for a referendum so that these rights could be reduced more easily.

What is the point of taking back control only to reinstate these protections?

The only logical leave argument on taking back control of workers' rights is that UK businesses were burdened by worker's rights. By leaving the EU these rights can be removed progressively and companies can therefore be more flexible about salaries, holidays, parental leave etc without fear of a claim.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 15/10/2019 23:01

deadline reached.

tobee · 15/10/2019 23:03

Eleven o'clock strikes.

Is it like when Asquith was waiting to hear back from Germany following their 3rd August, 1914 ultimatum after the invasion of "poor little Belgium"?

No, not really.

tobee · 15/10/2019 23:04
  • our ultimatum not theirs
OhYouBadBadKitten · 15/10/2019 23:04

off to bed.
That was a bit of an anticlimax.

Somerville · 15/10/2019 23:05

I’m hovering in Twitter but don’t know what it is I’m expecting to see!

Somerville · 15/10/2019 23:11

Every Twitter commentator is commentating on the fact that every Twitter commentator doesn’t know what’s going on.
I’ve never seen anything like it before.

Tomorrow at 4 seems to be the consensus for when there will be reliable news.

Driedlimes · 15/10/2019 23:15

Me too - keep refreshing Twitter.
Latest from the Sun is that IDS exploded after briefing on the 'deal' as did some other deeply unpleasant ERGer.

Absolutely ridiculous though - at least May's deal was published in good time, allowed proper scrutiny etc.

Somerville · 15/10/2019 23:18

I can’t see that they will come to a new agreement but even if they do I then how would it get voted through parliament at this stage?

Boris is cornered and desperate. Which worries me, because desperate people can lash out in incredible destructive ways. Especially when they’re testosterone-fueled with a high sense of self-importance and used to getting their own way.

tobee · 15/10/2019 23:18

Front pages make interesting reading. Quite contradictory!

tobee · 15/10/2019 23:19

Obviously the Express loving Boris but The Guardian and The Times not necessarily what you guess. (They'll probably change overnight)

Oakenbeach · 15/10/2019 23:21

O the innocence. But we don't have democracy in Britain. We have a system of repeatedly jury-rigged constituencies and FPTP.

Labour generally do pretty well out of FPTP! And yes, imperfect as it is, we do live in a democracy. It’s grossly insulting to the bulk of the world that don’t to claim otherwise.

Motheroffourdragons · 15/10/2019 23:30

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

RedToothBrush · 15/10/2019 23:48

I don't think anyone knows where we are at the end of play tonight.

Lots of speculation but I think we are waiting on two things

  1. The EU's next move
  2. What Johnson does about the Benn Act

We should find out in the next 24 to 48 hours.

I think we are at where we should expect tbh. I wasn't expecting a done deal tonight.

This one is an intriguing prospect...

Mujtabi Rahman @mij_europe
Have a feeling @BorisJohnson might ask EU for one month extension to try to pre-empt Benn Act & avoid three months. Less damaging. Would this coincide with delayed new @EUCommission taking over? If so, might suit EU. Time to tie up loose ends. @EuroparlEN approval 1/2

Also: hear that Labour braced for a deal. @jeremycorbyn, in Brussels Thurs for PES meeting, will attack deal as worse than May’s - would mean race to the bottom on workers’ rights, environmental standards etc
Also: If deal on, Johnson might do Commons statement tomorrow 2/2

I don't think that the DUP or the ERG are doing anything different to expected. So it depends on how far Johnson is prepared to go into illegality.

If he's not then he has to make another concession tomorrow.

I also expect the EU will make warm noises whatever. And perhaps give 'another chance' on the basis of an very short 'technical' extension.

This looks to be the timetable tomorrow :

Christopher Hope@christopherhope
^NEW Boris Johnson is to address a mass meeting of the 1922 committee of Conservative backbenchers at 7.30pm tomorrow night, sources have confirmed.
The PM will brief his Cabinet at 4pm.
All the political furniture is in place for a #Brexit deal - or a draft - to be unveiled.^

So I expect nothing formal before 4pm. There possibly might be something before 7.30pm though depending on how it goes (wouldn't be surprised by a podium at some point)

I think the phrase is 'Game On.'

I will try and be about tomorrow. I've had a lot on lately personally...

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 15/10/2019 23:54

Also we have two questions here.

The one about a deal being agreed with the EU

And the one about whether any opposition party supports a deal or there are enough rebels to give Johnson sufficient numbers. (I include the Independent Conservatives as a singular entity in this context).

So far we have had a lot of speculation on the DUP and ERG but really the opposition is more important in many respects.

Labour can't agree to a deal without it doing harm to their electoral chances IMHO... That's the trouble.

OP posts:
OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 15/10/2019 23:57

Been out all night at a meeting. Looked at Twitter, got most confused. Came on here to find out that's where everyone is at. Should know by now to look here first!

tobee · 16/10/2019 00:07

Looking on here is the first rule of Brexit.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/10/2019 00:34

Some papers think Brexit will not happen before 2020 - my opinion too

Westminstenders: Showdown
Westminstenders: Showdown
BigChocFrenzy · 16/10/2019 00:37

Others focusing on how to get HoC approval
(of course, we could still No Deal)

Westminstenders: Showdown
Westminstenders: Showdown
BigChocFrenzy · 16/10/2019 00:49

"I’ve never really understood the workers’ rights issue. If the UK population wants them, it can vote in a Government that will deliver them - that’s democracy"

I'd rather not let the UK electorate decide to throw away yet more rights that some of them doesn't appreciate

My faith in their good sense and their ability not to be taken in by wealthy conmen has taken a battering
Currently looks like they might vote to transfer the entire BoE reserves to a Nigerian Prince - so long as he went to Eton & told good jokes

May's WA would prevent them voting for a race to the bottom
prevent them voting to give up workers rights, consumers rights, environmental regs and - unknowingly - the NHS

Ellie56 · 16/10/2019 00:53

Now we have a new Parliament maybe the Opposition will resurrect May's WA and push it through...

BigChocFrenzy · 16/10/2019 01:57

If we are going to have a WA, even as the Leave choice in a PV, I'd much rather May's one than BJ's

PotterHead1985 · 16/10/2019 02:14

My brain is beyond frazzled about all this now. Will just wait and see what comes out in the wash tomorrow.

Also trying to work out where my mam will stand if god forbid Brexit happens (she's à British citizen who has lived in Ireland for over 40 years). I'm good cos I have dual citizenship.

DoctorTwo · 16/10/2019 04:33

Latest from the Sun is that IDS exploded

Oh how I wish this was literal and he did explode. Hopefully he took McVile with him.