The Reconciliation Cafe

[QueerVictoria]

Hello! Shall we try to do this? A place where Leavers and Remainers come in peace and attempt to find a way forward where we drink lager & sancerre and chianti and think of what unites instead of what divides? Terribly idealistic? How about showing our best side?

The EU Cheese Creep sounds like a most unpleasant fellow.

Probably an associate of Hamburglar.

Another 'limited vision' has chimed in I see. EU creep. the UK is one of the members of the EU and has or had considerable respect for many of the legislation that the UK proposed.
The fact that in the last 10 years or so, it has been a 'stated policy' by the UK to be diruptive just shows the mean ness of spirit and downright unpleasntnes of some of the UK representatives. In any case an organisation with the welfare of 500 million from many diverse historical poitions will always be evolving. Those in the back row, playing with themselves and being disruptive as well as not paying attention, will obviously lose out a bit, just like in any Primary school class.
THe EP is simply the 'clearing house' for legislation that makes a unified Europe possible. From the strength of Unity, all members benefit from trade regulations that preven the domination by the USA and China and enure that quality and accountability is maintained.
If you are bothered by 'Euro creep' enjoy the bonfire of regulations that some in the UK government want to bring in. Eliminte workers rights, safety regulations and so on and enjoy sucking up to the USA imposed lowering of food standards, and possible sell off of the NHS. Boris and so many are lying every time they open their mouth.
The 20,000 'extra' police, nearly replaces numbericlly, those removed in the last 8 years or so, but the expertise has been lost.
Do you think the disaster capitalists will, when they make their money from the failure of the Pound, put their hands in their pockets and suddenly splash out many tens of billions to improve the lives of the 'ordinary person in the street' with better wages, more social housing, free public transport or whatever many might want. Will they hell!

...No. You cannot make Stilton in Greece. The milk is different. The temperature and humidity is different.

The French have a word for it: Terroir.

EU Cheese Creep sounds like a most unpleasant fellow.
OMG your so funny, thanks, still laughing in the best way possible. I agree what happened has happened, maybe laughter will be a way forward.

To give an example, the French monks at Riveaux Abbey tried to make Roquefort cheese from the local milk, and came up with Wensleydale.

Well I'm going to throw caution to the winds for a minute and say whatever Eu creep is I like it, the Eu can creep all over me if it means I can have tomatoes and medicines and an EHIC and peace on the island of Ireland. And immigrants, I bloody love living in a multi-cultural society, I think it's rich and brilliant and endlessly wonderful. But there you go, clearly I'm ill informed.

onalongsabbatical everyone in this world is allowed to think differently, to want different outcome, to want different jobs.
No one person is always 100% right.

We can agree on that. But this country needs to function better. I think it would have functioned rather better if Brexit had never been dreamed up. And none of this is going to be over on the 31st, whether we leave or not.

What are your priorities other than Brexit Mummy and other leave voters ? What should the Government be prioritising in your opinion ? Pretend for a moment that some form of Brexit has happened, youv'e had your party and taken down the bunting, what next ? Whats important ?

Further integration is only an issue if you intend to be the arse in the corner and refuse to join in with the general flow and be disruptive.
Like if you turned up at your tennis club with a cricket bat and insist the others modify the rules to suit you.

As Buzz (lightyear) says, 'play nice'.

I think Electronic voting should be a must.
I do know leave only won because 10 million didn't bother.
But until everyone votes it will always be swung by those who bother

Yes, pumpkin. A good start would be dropping the goady 'It's the will of the people' mantra.

The bigger question is, what will the leavers/Brexiteers do, when they realise that the promises made by Boris and others are simply not realisable. THe 'sunny uplands don't exist, however tight you cros your fingers and wish. There is not sufficient money within the UK, nor the political will by any in government, or even opposition, to make all the promises happen. Leaving the EU will simply create a void, and there sre insufficient resources within the UK to even start to fill the void.
The UK 'borrowed' a huge pile of money from the USA, so it could continue fighting WW2, and the UK was repaying that debt for 50 years. I suppose the UK can simply get into debt with China and accept their terms. The situation in Hong Kong is going well, so consider what will happen when China decides to turn the screw.

mummmy- regarding voting, it is one reason Leave won't countenance another referendum on the terms of Brexit, especially with 'Remain' as an option. Because many who voted Leave won't be bothered to vote again, like they didn't, by their own admission ever before.

And you, a Leaver, admitting that you know that the majority actually would rather remain, (and that EU creep is a perception, not a reality)- rather flies in the face of the oft chanted 'democracy', doesn't it?

Even my pretty much non committed, Leave DB admits he doesn't like his bedfellows!

Personally, I think the nasty underbelly this has revealed will take at least a generation to begin to heal, but a part of me thinks that maybe the harsh realities of what the government itself is predicting might be what Little England needs in order to grow up as a country, to quit the infantile jingoism, to get cut down to size, to recognise that in an increasingly uncertain and hostile world, cooperation beats isolationism.

Maybe. But thank god my family have all got alternative passports, tho not EU.

I do know leave only won because 10 million didn't bother.
No. Leave won because they manipulated the argument. Leave won because DCameron thought they wouldn't so didn't construct the ref properly. Leave won because some people who should have been able to vote were disenfranchised. Leave won because a super-majority was not set, which it should have been for such a massive change. Etc etc etc.

Wether EU creep is real or not does not matter, it is the real reason Millions voted to leave.
Whether something is real or not actually matters a lot Mummy.

I assume you voted Leave
On the day, back in 2016, how did you think this vote was going to change your life?

Are Leave admitting their position is based on nothing but delusion and cheese-induced bad dreams?

As a leaver, I know this.
There were more than enough people who could have got out of bed and voted, but it didn't matter enough to them to make the effort to ensure the vote went the way they wished .
You are blaming us for bothering.
It is clear that remain are not happy about being out voted yet years down the line refuse to accept they messed up by not voicing things which now in hindsight they should have.

mummmy2017
Apart from some living in Europe who did not get the correct voting forms etc and were not counted.
While 'leavers' are happy to believe in the lies spouted during the voting period, the government has done NOTHING to actually correct some of the 'wrongs' that they were claiming to be down to the EU. Failure to investigate properly and seek out the truth is a 'leaver' trait. Instead they listen to and propagate lies and blame everyone except themselves.When will 'leavers' realise that they were lied to?
No, it is much easier to stick your fingers in your ears and sing 'project fear'.
Windrush, Europeans in the UK and UK citizens in the EU (around 3 Million total)already know that it was not just project fear.
Leavers will eventually start to compromise. How will it start? empty supermarket shelves (or rations), or significant job losses and banks withdrawing mortgages etc?
All around you can hear disaster capitalists rubing their hands in glee at the oncoming 'fire sale' of the UK. Chinese and USA companies relishing the idea of buying up chunk of the UK and imposing their own (lower) standards of employment law and such like. Meanwhile those true brits like the Mogg, wander off with their pockets full and buy another property or two elsewhere.

What about all the registered no voters.
These are the people who let you down.
Because the leavers were shocked so many stayed in bed, or sat doing nothing.
Remain failed to publicise things which you now see as winning arguements, instead they attacked leave.
Can you not see they caused their own failing, by not seeing just how strong the leave feeling was.

Mummy, this is a reconciliation thread. The Blame threads are elsewhere. I asked you a question, maybe you missed it so I'll ask again:
On the day, back in 2016, how did you think this vote was going to change your life?

mummy there is indeed some truth in what you're saying. Which I see as an argument for a second (third, whatever) ref, because now everyone in this country who is capable can understand what a massive thing this is and deserves a say on it. Not least the people who have come of voting age in the last three and a half years, for whom it's their future.

Shades of green for a sunny Sunday

We need to focus on Evidence Based Decision Making
and trying to make things better for our children

• Climate Change
• Inequality

neither of which will be improved by turning our backs on the world with an ill thought out hard Brexit.

Time to reset the argument to be about what we want, not what we do not.

EU creep. the UK is one of the members of the EU and has or had considerable respect for many of the legislation that the UK proposed.

This, a thousand times this. The EU, on the whole, is dominated by countries that have a much more socialist and egalitarian outlook than the UK. The UK is different, having as it does as an E. European lecturer at my Uni said once in absolute disbelief and disgust, an aristocracy. A class structure. Embedded misogyny against women. High levels of aggression and violence. A culture increasingly dominated by 'winner takes all' mindset, where 'winners' are those prepared to shit all over everyone else, without listening or cooperating. Johnson is the natural product of a long evolution in British culture.

We all know the EU isn't perfect ffs. It's an experiment, an evolving experiment. We can have as much influence in it as we like. How is it we are simultaneously the little underdog being bullied by the mighty colossus, yet we have the might to stand on our own and tell the EU and the US both where to go, dictating terms to Ireland in the meantime??

We're all played somewhere in modern politics. Leavers think we're played by Europe. Remainers, or at least this particular representative of them, think we're played by London. Which is closest and really has the most influence in Britain?

And yes, I thoroughly agree that we should all be uniting around throwing David Cameron in the stocks. There's a few other people who bear great responsibility for the lies told in the Leave campaign, one of whom is now heading and has formed the excuse for a government.