The Reconciliation Cafe

[QueerVictoria]

Hello! Shall we try to do this? A place where Leavers and Remainers come in peace and attempt to find a way forward where we drink lager & sancerre and chianti and think of what unites instead of what divides? Terribly idealistic? How about showing our best side?

Yes to sex. And free contraception.

Can I add the 1975? And George Michael?

I think more listening than talking is needed. It is clear that Leave voters are a diverse lot. It's about time people listened to their concerns. We need to find the best way of fixing what people are saying is broken.

I don't think the groupings on either side have been listened to.
But remainers have invisible since the ref. I actually think an alien landing would assume the population of the UK is 17:4 million. It is the only number ever mentioned.
There is not going to be consensus until concerns on both sides are addressed.

@Autumnrose I do miss George Michael. My old route to work used to take me past his house in Goring and seeing all the flowers used to make me so sad.

I think we can heal if all sides stop the rhetoric but I think with Boris in charge this will never happen. I'd like some calm statesman (and women) like characters to put aside personal gain and work together to find a way through this. Boris' naked ambition and arrogance is just causing everyone harm.

I don't fancy Idris by the way, I like him, but the sparks just not there. I'm still in love with Jamie Lannister.

To be able to have a bit of unity, we'd need a leader willing to show compromise and tone down the rhetoric, as well as much more neutral media.

Imnotthrowingawaymyshot

Every single piece of legislation emanating from the EU has been discussed by UK MEPs then brought to the UK government for ratification and aproval and passed into UK legislation, at that point it is entirely up to the UK government to enact and police whatever legislation had been put forward.
The fact that Blair and others interpret legislation and apply it differently is Entirely down to the UK and NOT the EU. If the legilation is not being applied and impacts the remaining EU27, there is a mechanism for complaint.
The bollocks you have written about white van man and 'cheap workers is TOTALLY down to the UK government then and now, failing to crack down of UK employers and bugger all to do with the EU as such.
Farage was MEP for UK fisheries and because he attended so few debates in the EP and was simply lazy and did not understnd the differences between the various members of the fishing industry, lost the quotas. Why should the EU be responsible for making UK MEPs attent and take due notice?
Stopping FoM will not prevent so called 'tourist crimes' where some criminals 'pop over and commit crime, before moving elsewhere. Only by cross border police coordination can this be reduced, something that will be impaired by Brexiting. Criminals are way ahead of the UK police, and the proposals put forward during Brexit are simply making the situation worse. UK criminal1s are not being investigated and aprehended. Once the UK leaves, smuggling or 'black market' activity will become rife.

On a lighter note, I am loving the pictures of trees/leaves.

Much of the problem seems to be the inability of many Leavers to articulate what they want without resorting to Euromyth lies fed to them by the likes of Johnson (prawn cocktail crisps was his) and the Mail, Express and Sun.

Two questions you ask about any narrative: What's it about, and What's it really about?

It can't be about straight bananas and the French nicking our fish. It must be about something else. What is it? No vague assertions about how we are 'ruled' from Brussels, be specific.

In a lot of cases it is 40 years of watching Euro creep.
Something small covering everything it touched.
So when DC finally said you can go if you want, people said thanks , we accept.

Such as?

MockersthefeMANist
There is no such as.
Look at how many things are now covered by the EU rules and that is EU creep.

"EU Rules"

Such as?

MockersthefeMANist
There is no single answer .
You go into partnership with someone to trade goods
40 years later your paying the partner Billions and the partner tells you how to fart.
You get told you can leave.
You say yes .

Euro creep? Can you be more specific as to what it is you call Euro creep? Because i have no idea what that means.

Cross post. i have not been told how to fart. Can you actually be specific?

There is no such as, but the EU is telling us how to fart.

In what way?

Please link to the Eurofart Directive, or any other objectionable piece of EU legislation.

onalongsabbatical
That is what people don't see, that this EU creep has covered all walks of life, very few things do not have some EU entanglement.
Where your cheese is made, what it is called, whom you can sell it too.

A reconciling thing maybe Christmas decorations if that's not too religiousy. --

I've listed many times before for Mummy the myth of Euro creep.

Surely in the spirit of reconciliation we can agree that the agreed joint EU remit was just trade and market related rules (so food regulations, environment and some basic workers rights).

Perhaps we can reconcile that there was an unjustified fear that this could extend?

(The reality of course was that that we or Westminster were always self governing. Almost everything apart from some food and environment rules is U.K. wide only - so NHS, education, planning, pensions, inheritance, prisons, sentencing, roads, benefits, housing, Constitutional and administrative law, elderly social care, commercial law, Construction law, policing, Contract law ,Corporation law ,Some Employment law ,Family law including marriage, divorce, adoption, finances,Film and entertainment law, Insolvency litigation, banking and debt recovery ,Law of succession, wills and estates, Law of torts , compensation for wrongful acts e.g. negligence, nuisance, defamation, trespass ,personal injury and medical negligence, Property law, Planning ,Sports law, Taxation income tax inheritance tax etc. We can control domestic violence guardianship ,emergency protection, divorce property, spousal maintenance, adoption, mental capacity, probate, elderly care, benefits,housing, crime, defence , fiscal policy, electoral policy etc.etc.
drug crimes, public nuisance , conspiracy, traffic and driving offences, theft, misconduct in public office, perjury, abuse of authority, subpoenas, jury stuff, misappropriation of funds, bribes, dereliction of duty, perverting the course of justice, fraud, murder, manslaughter, common assault, battery, robbery, rape, kidnapping ,abduction, arson, burglary, trespass, forgery, certain libel, espionage
contempt of court, escape from lawful custody, breach of prison, rescuing a prisoner in custody, riot, piracy
unlawful assembly, breach of the peace, public decency, running a disorderly house, housebreaking,Theft, threats with intent to extort money or property, arson.)

Whenever I think of either side of brexit this song comes from mind

m.youtube.com/watch?v=Dkk9gvTmCXY

Wether EU creep is real or not does not matter, it is the real reason Millions voted to leave.
A bit like trying to short the stable door after the horse has bolted.

"Where your cheese is made, what it is called, whom you can sell it too."

In what way does the EU regulate who we can sell our cheese to?

You cannot make Stilton except in the East Midlands. You cannot make Feta outside Greece. You would prefer to buy Greek Stilton and Leicstershire Feta?

Cheese - you mean things like protecting the provenance of things like feta and parmesan so that America or your uncle Bob in his shed can't make a deeply inferior product and call it feta or parmesan thereby destroying the integrity of a product's profile?
Is the what Eu cheese creep looks like?

Wether EU creep is real or not does not matter

Yay the reconciliation thread is working. An admission from the Brexit camp that EU creep may not be real.

I can agree that it the consequences of this belief that matter more

You cannot make Stilton except in the East Midlands. You cannot make Feta outside Greece. You would prefer to buy Greek Stilton and Leicstershire Feta?
Actually you can make the same cheese, taste the same, looks the same. You just can't market it as Stilton or Feta.