The Reconciliation Cafe

[QueerVictoria]

Hello! Shall we try to do this? A place where Leavers and Remainers come in peace and attempt to find a way forward where we drink lager & sancerre and chianti and think of what unites instead of what divides? Terribly idealistic? How about showing our best side?

Reconcilliation will only come when Leavers recognise they have been had, swindelled, defrauded, lied to and taken for mugs.

It's not a gold brick. It's a turd painted yellow.

Reconciliation will only happen when remain realise they should have put more effort into it before the vote .

twofingersuproEverything. Clearly you are not the well educated elite as you didn't actually read my post properly.

I was making a point that both sides are making generalisations about the others. I then went on to point out what those (erroneous) generalisations are. Both generalisation examples paint Leavers and Remainers in a negative light.

I personally have no particular point of view which makes me far more able to see the ridiculousness of the rhetoric on both sides and have a less biased view of the whole proceedings.

Reconciliation occurs when you can see the point of view of the other person and respect their views, which is not happening very often.

The problem for me is that someone else's view or perspective is taking away my rights and freedoms (plus tens and millions of others') not to mention the economic costs. It has a real world impact. I suppose I could get on board with it if I knew that a deal would satisfy at least the vast majority of leave voters. seems unlikely at this point and NF et al will ask for more and more. I'd settle with BINO if that would allow people to move on.

I personally have no particular point of view which makes me far more able to see the ridiculousness of the rhetoric on both sides and have a less biased view of the whole proceedings.

Refers yellow to her own post further up the thread.
The Remainers are always quick to pour vitriol on any Leaver daring to put their head above the parapet and Leavers are sick of being called thick and ignorant and prefer to hide away in the Brexit closet. Never the Twain shall meet, as they say.
No particular point of view there then. (Remainers = vitriolic/Leavers = poor little victims)

Danetobe
Certainly agree with you on that.
Leavers have already taken my rights, job, pension together with a good 3 million others having their lives messed up, and the Leavers can't even define what they actually want nor how they might actually get it.

I would like to work with the EU from inside it to stop the influence of Russia and China undermining democracy, good governance and transparency

on its own the UK can do stuff all against anybody

and the Leavers can't even define what they actually want nor how they might actually get it.
This is the most frustrating thing of all.
What do we want?
Brexit!
What does that look like?
We don't know!
When do we want it?
Now!

Since Brexit is so ill defined, how do you know you haven't already got it?

Well we know that whatever Brexit they might get, they won't like it and complain that it isn't a real Brexit with a Game of Thrones wall between the UK and the Continent to keep the Turks out and the Unicorns in.

twofingers. I have no particular point of view, but I have noted (as you say) Remainers are quick to pour vitriol and call Leavers thick and ignorant because this is what i see all the time. I hear Leavers call Remainers elitist but apart from that not much.

Leavers generally say very little about Remainers. Remainers are highly aggressive (as are you) and show absolutely no desire to reconcile unless they get their own way. This is why a reconciliation cafe isn't going to get far.

I personally didn't vote as I can see both sides too well and I thought remain would win (like many others). Perhaps if the politicians had done a better job of spelling out the negatives of leaving, many Leavers would have voted to remain in the EU.

And yes, I do feel greater sympathy for Leavers because of all the vitriol poured on them and their rightly held belief, that democracy is being denied to them. I support membership of the EU but I feel democracy is more important.

I will always support the underdog, no matter whether they're right or wrong!

Lacking in self-awareness are we, yellow? You don't think responding with a direct 'fuck off' in response to a simple question (Fri 11-Oct-19 21:08:17) is aggressive? I say 'pot/kettle/black.'

I will always support the underdog, no matter whether they're right or wrong! Reading this, I imagine the type of person who votes for Lord Buckethead.

Leavers generally say very little about Remainers. Utter. Nonsense. Do you actually read the news? Have you seen the things Leavers have said about Gina Miller, Anna Soubry etc. Here's a little news story for you, if you want to take those blinkers off for a moment Have you read any BTL comments on social media referring to 'libtards' 'remoaners', 'remainiacs' etc? Have you seen Leavers calling judges 'enemies of the people' etc?
By all means support Leave voters if that's what floats your boat, but the lack of nuance in your opinions is very unconvincing.

twofingers. I hate it when anyone attacks anyone else. I have not read anything derogatory on MN about Gina miller or anything specifically Leave. We are on MN (maybe you haven't noticed?) therefore my observations are MN specific. When I see attacks of Remainers like GM on the TV I am equally disgusted that people cannot pursue legitimate legal actions or are criticised for upholding legal decisions.

If I've said fuck off I've clearly meant it and as you have quoted out of context it's a meaningless phrase. I will say fuck off to the likes of Ferage when he is racist, but I will also accept he is voicing a fear felt by many ordinary people.

Being neutral means I can see both sides and feel no urge to be vitriolic to anyone who disagrees with them unlike yourself.

Surely reconciliation is about being able to see both sides of an issue and reaching compromises?

being neutral means I can see both sides and feel no urge to be vitriolic to anyone who disagrees with them unlike yourself
Congratulations on your impartiality

Surely reconciliation is about being able to see both sides of an issue and reaching compromises?

Unfortunately all the compromises in this situation are a bit or a lot rubbish and nobody seems awfully keen on them, leaver or remainer.

I can see both sides
One side is based on facts and evidence
The other side is based on belief and soundbites
I therefore do not accord them equal weight in deciding the outcome

(I am not specifying the issue as that rule applies to many current issues)

I will always support the underdog, no matter whether they're right or wrong!

Omg we're doomed.

But the underdog isn't remain is it ? because they lost need to get over it . So you have decided that leave are the underdogs ? I wonder why you have reached this conclusion ?

I will always support the underdog

My Mum usually says this in relation to, say, sport, So FA Cup Manchester Unted Accrington Stanley vs Manchester City, she will cheer on Man U Accrington.

Kind of much higher stakes here.

If someone is being vile about Remainers, I will put the case for remain as I see it.
If someone is being vile about Leavers, I will put the case for leave as I see it.

I may be totally wrong to do this but I hate seeing anyone getting bullied.

eg. Gina Miller has to be commended for standing up for the rule of law. She was right. Without laws we are not a democracy. Demonising our judges is pretty vile.

Leave voters won an overall majority at the referendum. To remain is a denial of their democratic rights.

I hate the ignorant right wing fascist racists who spout the worst type of leave sentiment.
I hate elitist, left wingers with a superiority complex who pour scorn on everyone who voted leave.

No hope for people like me 🤣. I'm going to be hated by both sides!

Interesting that you use the term elitist only for left wingers, are you suggesting that Labour voters are traditionally from the elite sections of society ? Are right wing voters always from the impoverished underclass ? Would you describe Boris Johnson and Dominic Cummings as elite ? What criteria do you have to meet to be elite ? Yellow

"Elite"
Have parents in law who own a castle
and enough land to get over £100,000 a year in EU farm subsidies
I'd have thought

Thank The Good Lord we have Bullingdon Boris, Hedge Fund Jakey and Nigel of the London Metal Exchange to save us all from The Elite.