Westministenders: Conference Cult

[RedToothBrush]

Is it over yet?

The Tory Party Conference is in full swing in the Manchester Rain, and is proving to be its usual fun.

Johnson is caught up in all sorts of allegations of abuses of power - the non-declaration of his "friendship" to a busty blonde whom was getting a large tax payer grant, and then there the Odey question after his sister said he was under the control of the Hedge Funders.

And thats before we talk about the 40 hospitals, his provocative language and how many times he can say the word surrender.

There is lots of distancing from Lyton Crosby. And accusations that Johnson has gone 'rogue' only listening to the wisdom of Cummings and Symonds.

The Queen apparently has asked for advice as to under what circumstance she can dismiss a PM.

AND NO ONE IS EVEN TALKING ABOUT A DEAL.

pretzels I see that hardline Remainers would rather No Deal than pass the WA, so they are part of the problem
They'd rather see the UK go over the cliff edge than compromise
That immediately puts my back up against any group

However, reports are that more Tories would now vote for the WA, including some in the current Cabinet
We'll have to see, since the Kinnock amendment means there must be a vote

Why the WA ?

The WA is a legally binding international treaty;
Countries do occasionally break these, but it is one hell of a hurdle and we'd become a pariah state
AND the EU, the Irish govt & many investors would sue the UK govt for umpteen billions

The fury of the ERG and the hedge-fund donors at the WA is because the "level playing field" requirements the EU insisted on restruct so much of what they want to do:
EU workers rights, environmental regs etc which increase business costs

Revoke can be reversed by the next Tory govt

• and there will be one at some stage

The Tories can win a GE with about 31% They will justify ignoring the PV by saying the 2016 ref was not carried out

the route to getting a PV is very doubtful

I'm glad Labour have the PV in their manifesto and they could win, but they aren't the favourites
I don't believe in a GNU lasting that long - since about 30 Lexiters oppose a PV, the rebels don't even have a majority for it

I think 'hard-line Remainers' are unwilling to vote for the WA because they know the mania has subsided quite a bit & the majority of the UK no longer wants to Leave. 🤷‍♀️

It's a demented situation.

But who are the hard line Remauners who would rather No Deal than WA?

I haven't come across any of those in RL.

I do see a lot of Party leaders who are still trying to game this for political advantage - with the risk of No Deal that entails.

Which is unprincipled, rather than a hardline Remain position.

Good God. c 4 news JRM appears to be wearing eyeliner. And an even larger than normal dB suit. They're in Ireland now but will be back to him shortly

Well found indeed Mship ! That is possibly what I saw
"the officials stressed that the request for an extension would need to come from the UK government."

The Speaker can't request it, nor can Parliament

Also, under our Constitution, within our govt, only the PM has the power to Revoke, or request an extension

But who are the hard line Remainers who would rather No Deal than WA?

Non-existent, I think, thecat.

The Tories are ending freedom of movement straight after Brexit announced by PP on news.

Also, under our Constitution, within our govt, only the PM has the power to Revoke, or request an extension

That can be changed with a vote. And the EU have said they won't interfere in our constitutional matters. So if parliament has voted to allow somebody else to ask, the EU will go along with that.

JRM
‘Psycho sanitary checks’
Freudian slip

"Just voting the W.A kills off any chance of remain ... what's in it for the remainers? "

Stopping No Deal and saving the country from catastrophe

24 hour shopping on a Sunday baffled me in Glasgow! I soon got over the shock though. 😂

Interesting JRM is repeating Barnier’s ‘nothing is agreed till every agreed’

Krishnan GM is trying to interview JRM on Channel 4 news
Frustrating to watch

"under our Constitution, within our govt, only the PM has the power to Revoke, or request an extension That can be changed with a vote."

With all due respect, that is nuts:

Just for this one instance, changing the constitution so that another minister can make that kind of decision against the wishes of the PM
I doubt if any country in the world allows that power for a minister over the head of govt

It would also be pointless, unless they can find a minister who would agree to destroy their career.

And finally, I'm damn sure the Rebel Alliance wouldn't even attempt that - it would bugger up future govts

Krishnan GM is trying to interview JRM on Channel 4 news. Frustrating to watch

It really was!

With all due respect,

Yet again, I'm calling somebody out on this. Don't be so bloody rude. I know it means you do anything but respect me (as you've just called it nuts, I'm not wrong).

Just because somebody thinks differently, does NOT give you the right to be bloody rude. OK?

Well, I'm afraid we just disagree about who is being the most intransigent or what the most reasonable compromise is.

the rebels don't even have a majority for it

Nor do they have a majority for the W.A.

And if the W.A isn't passed before a GE (which it doesn't look like it will - and if they call a VoNC sooner rather than later the Kinnock bill will just disappear, as parliament won't be sitting any more ) then it's pretty much off the cards full stop. Because it isn't on anybody's manifestos. No political parties are getting ready to fight for the W.A... presumably because they don't think it's a vote winner.

The fury of the ERG and the hedge-fund donors at the WA is because the "level playing field" requirements the EU insisted on restrict so much of what they want to do:
EU workers rights, environmental regs etc which increase business costs

In the unlikely event of the W.A passing and assuming (and there's not much reason to assume) BJ and cronies won't ignore it anyway (they really don't care if we're a pariah state, or if the country is bankrupted by law suits) they would simply change the backstop to being NI only (and I don't see why the EU would not allow that - they though the UK wide backstop was a massive concession in the first place. They would be happy to revert). The W.A cannot prevent us from diverging in standards down the line, if we are willing to jettison our relationship with Europe (spoiler alert - they are) as long as the island of Ireland is protected. The rest of Britain would then diverge and be treated to the full and wonderful effects of the American FTA and the bonfire of workers rights along with the destruction of the NHS.

If we're not doing something because somewhere down the line the tories might screw us over anyway ... the W.A doesn't offer much protection to the island of Britain. As that's the island I happen to be on ... thanks but no thanks.

And it's one specific thing they would change, in relation to this one specific issue, which would be from a parliamentary majority (to stop no deal). Not the entire bloody constitution about absolutely anything and everything going forwards.

Stopping No Deal and saving the country from catastrophe

choosing the lesser of two evils is still choosing evil. Being forced into something they disagree with by putting a gun to their head is not anything any right thinking person should take lying down. Nor is it the way to preserve democracy.
You can turn this completely around - the (minority of) W.A supporters can accept a P.V and so stop no deal and avert catastrophe. Difference is - they still get their preferred option in the mix - and if they win, they get it no questions asked.

BJ still hasn't learned how the EU works

He is planning to explain his new proposals first to the E27 heads of govt - probably just the ones he thinks important - in a "charm offensive" ahead of sending them to Brussels / Barnier

He'll probably just manage the "offensive" bit

it seems the leaks were correct and these proposals include customs borders

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/09/30/boris-johnson-reveal-final-brexit-plan-eu-leaders-within-24/

Nowordforfluffy I went to see Ivan Rogers' talk last week and he touched on the issue of whether the EU would talk with anyone other than the PM about an extension. He was very clear that he believed they would only deal with "the executive" and it was too risky for the EU to be seen doing deals (including an extension) with anyone other than the official government.

Not an EU source but a useful insight from someone well placed.

fluffy I called your suggestion nuts, not you - because it was
Changing the constitution just like that,
Instead of replacing the PM

Seriously, think about it

if BJ gets a narrow win next GE, are you happy if he starts changing the constitution too ?