Westministenders: Conference Cult

[RedToothBrush]

Is it over yet?

The Tory Party Conference is in full swing in the Manchester Rain, and is proving to be its usual fun.

Johnson is caught up in all sorts of allegations of abuses of power - the non-declaration of his "friendship" to a busty blonde whom was getting a large tax payer grant, and then there the Odey question after his sister said he was under the control of the Hedge Funders.

And thats before we talk about the 40 hospitals, his provocative language and how many times he can say the word surrender.

There is lots of distancing from Lyton Crosby. And accusations that Johnson has gone 'rogue' only listening to the wisdom of Cummings and Symonds.

The Queen apparently has asked for advice as to under what circumstance she can dismiss a PM.

AND NO ONE IS EVEN TALKING ABOUT A DEAL.

I say! Well it wouldn’t be a proper Conservative Party Conference without fisticuffs. However, before the sun is over the yardarm, is just not cricket. Good to hear they booted the ruffian out.

I need a stiff sherry to recover.

"If the Gaukeward squad want their sensible brexit with the W.A they need to put it to a vote before a GE"

Yes, a vote of MPs

The Kinnock Amendment to the Benn bill requires that the WA should be offered to MPs again
If this can be ignored, then why not the bit about an extension ?

Politics has been in a parlous state before, with parties haemorrhaging MPS and parliament has limped on to the finish line of the next due GE. Although I was far too young to vote in the first half of the 1990s, I believe that John Major's govt was a sinking ship by the time it crawled across the finishing line in 1997.
Elections are meant to happen every five years - what happens in the middle we either punish or reward in the next election. MPs have further compounded this by voting for the FTPA.

The only reason this parliament is in such a mess is brexit. To clean up that mess they need a clear mandate. Not only does a GE not give a clear mandate, because it is on much more than brexit, it also doesn't necessarily solve the problem if we end up with a similar placement of seats.

And then what? another GE?

Brexit needs a clear and decisive solution. A GE is not that.

There is a clear question that needs asking: Do you want us to pass the W.A and thus get an orderly brexit?
A GE - especially one with no manifestos supporting the W.A does not give an answer.

Another good Scottish expression in your honour Scooby and particularly relevant yet again to our current UK Politicians who don't have a scooby what they're doing

(Although on Googling, there seems to be mixed views as to whether it is a purely Scottish expression )

We need to make sure to educate the like-minded English about Scots words and expressions, for when they have to move up here as refugees

Numpties is another good one. Describes most of our current politicians perfectly.

mother At the bottom of the story, it says Ireland unlikely to agree and that the daft BJ proposals mean the EU won't make concessions
So it doesn't quite fit the headline

Good advice from an EU diplomat last year about "EU concessions" is to wait until it appears in the German press too

btw, with the pound rising every time we have such stories and then dropping again, the hedge-funders are doing very well out of these constant rumours

I wonder if the posh tory mp malkied the poor in the coupon

I think you'll find scooby (-doo/clue) is rhyming slang from The Smoke.

You know: Apples and Pears. Trouble and Strife. Gawd bless the dear old Queen Mum. I'd string em up, I would, South of the river at this tome of the afternoon, etc.

*poor sod

I think the logic (for Labour) is more that you can't offer a meaningful PV unless it has an outline of a Brexit that a government is mandated to put into practice. That's where a post-GE government has a remit that a GNU just hasn't.

Plus Labour are clearly hoping the Consevative vote will tank after Oct 31 + there will be a re-run of the 2017 bounce.

I'm with Rory Stewart here. I wouldn't count on Johnson's ratings dropping significantly post Oct 31. We're no longer in the realm of logic.

@WhoreOfWhabylon, did you really need to post that? I'm in pieces

Not having a scooby and numpties aren't solely-Scottish, no. Definitely both sides of the border.

User blame me!
I asked someone to link it, and Bore obliged.
I cried too, but cathartic tears.

Pretzels Major had a (small) majority until the end
Otherwise there would have been a VoNC and an earlier GE

This current situation is unique in the Uk - and imo a dangerous deficit in democracy if it lasts for long
A dangerous precedent too

The govt is a minority, cannot get sufficient C&S to win votes
... but the Opposition won't allow a GE and also hasn't tried to replace him after a VoNC

Instead, it is trying to use the PM like a glove puppet to get an extension

That is cack-handed and imo undemocratic, especially if it lasts beyond 31 October

We urgently need to fill this political vacuum with a new PM and a new govt with a fresh mandate to govern

Yes, a vote of MPs

But they won't win it without the help of remain MPs and remain MPs won't agree to it without first checking with the electorate - as they have promised their voters. They're certainly not going to vote it through just before a GE in which they would be annihilated by all the remainers they had just betrayed.

I get that you, personally, don't believe a GNU could last long enough to get a P.V done. It's a genuine concern. But other than that - what is your problem with the idea of a P.V first? Because you are really fighting it - and not just from an instability of a GNU standpoint.
As it stands, a GE does not offer an option for the W.A - no one has it in their manifestos. If you want the W.A in order to preserve democracy then the votes for it have to come from remain MPs (ERG leavers want no deal) remain MPs will only give it their vote if a national vote has said they should.
It's just going round in circles - but at the end of the day, a P.V leaves the option for the W.A open ... those that support it have no actual reason to object (other than fear of losing). Just voting the W.A kills off any chance of remain ... what's in it for the remainers?

Of course the Kinnock amendment shouldn't be ignored (despite the improper way it was passed) but the W.A has been voted down three times. No reason to assume it won't be defeated a fourth. But if they amend it to include a P.V - and the tory rebels understand this is the only way they might achieve it then it might pass. But if they won't make that compromise then it will fail and we will no deal.

They are the ones asking people to go against what they believe in to give them something they want - so they are the ones that need to make the concessions.

@NoWordForFluffy I found this about the EU only accepting an extension request from the government, which isn't quite PM only but close.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.buzzfeed.com/amphtml/albertonardelli/germany-brexit-extension

Relevant quotes:

Some of the diplomats and officials said that an extension to article 50 — the framework that set out the two-year window for the UK’s departure from the EU — can only be considered if Britain’s prime minister asks for an extension and does so with a clear plan outlining next steps, such as holding a general election.

In addition to requiring a clear electoral purpose, the officials stressed that the request for an extension would need to come from the UK government.

Numpty must already have spread then

We'll soon have you going for your messages while shopping outwith normal English opening hours (such as all day on a Sunday: ds was scunnered to find that there were no shops open in the vicinity when he arrived at his hotel on Sunday late afternoon in Birmingham )

Thank you, @TheMShip. I must've put the wrong term into Google. I'm normally very good at Googling. 🙈🙈

but the Opposition won't allow a GE
The reason they haven't allowed a GE is because that would dissolve parliament and we would crash out by default. They are holding up democracy by not letting BJ run roughshod over the biggest threat to Britain since the war. JC has said 'give us the extension and we'll give you your election' - but considering BJ's cavalier disregard for the rule of law they are not being antidemocratic in holding out until he has fulfilled that request properly.

also hasn't tried to replace him after a VoNC
This is what I want them to do. Once the time is right (i,e once they have sorted themselves out) It is a part of the current system that after a VONC other parties can try and form a government - so claiming that they should go straight for a GE because otherwise it is undemocratic is a nonsense. It is part of our democracy. If they try it and people don't like it, parliament can vote to remove it as part of our democracy - stipulating any VONC is immediately followed by a GE. It isn't the right time to do this yet. It's not antidemocratic to wait for the right time.

Rushing in would be far more dangerous.

Instead, it is trying to use the PM like a glove puppet to get an extension
Parliament voted that the PM had to ask for an extension if a deal wasn't sorted. the current PM has proven he has no respect for the rule of law, will happily break the law. Putting it right and forcing his hand takes time - which they don't have after Oct 19th - it is not undemocratic to wait. It is sensible.

Either they will get their act together and form a GNU (still democratic as the possibility of it is part of our democratic system) or they will wait for the extension and then go into a GE. Neither is undemocratic. However a GE has the possibility of going spectacularly wrong if BJ wins, we no deal and he decides to break every law he fancies. If you're main concern is stopping no deal or preserving democracy then a GE right now is one hell of a gamble. There are safer (and still democratic) paths through this jungle.

We are in unprecedented times. That means the opposition have to act in an unprecedented manner. But all this is the fault of BJ and protecting the country from him has to be their number one goal. Giving him the GE he so desperately wants does not do that.

Numpty has been down here for years, so news travels fast!

I've lived in Glasgow and some of my best friends are Scottish; I'm not too bad on the old lingo. 😂

I wonder how much it riles Boris that Theresa got an election, and he can't ?

A lot, I hope.

The problem with a GNU is that Labour (The leadership, that is,) don't want one.

I think the majority of individual MPs across the House now - tacitly - favour a PV before a GE (& thus a GNU) But I am absolutely certain Labour leadership is against that.

And I also suspect the PV campaigns are aware of this too & are basing planning on a GE then PV.

Which, obviously, is a bit terrifying.

It requires tactical voting, without support of the main parties. A pretty crazy situation. 🤷‍♀️ and not one likely to end happily.

Numpties is another good one. Describes most of our current politicians perfectly. grin

"a puckle o ba'heids ha'in' a stooshie" as my DF describes the HoC nowadays.

I think the majority of individual MPs across the House now - tacitly - favour a PV before a GE (& thus a GNU) But I am absolutely certain Labour leadership is against that

Then it is officially time to call in Uri Gellar
Everyone - get on the right frequency and start sending those telepathic messages to Jeremy Corbyn 'Ommmm'.

Our LD candidate just came round to speak with DH. Interestingly, his leaflet refers to a PV, not revoke (though does also refer to stopping Brexit on the other side).