Westminstenders: What hangs in the balance?

[RedToothBrush]

Yellow Hammer (and Black Swan if it exists) and other documents the government itself has produced are our truths and our evidence.

I look to Thomas Jefferson quotes in trying to defend liberal democracy.

His most famous of quotes is

Thomas Jefferson was the principal author of the Declaration of Independence. The Declaration states, “We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness….”

Self evident truths. These are the bedrock of democracy.

There are many more quotes from Jefferson which talk about the shining beacon of truth and the threats to liberty from falsehoods and those who tell them.

He argued that when the power of the state is used to avoid scrutiny we should be worried and afraid. As a leader he should never be afraid of the truth, because the truth always exists and you can only merely hide it before it makes itself apparent anyway.

“The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only object of good government.”

Today I feel the need to dust off old Jefferson for my own sanity and to remind myself of what matters. Jefferson helps me focus on dangers and how you fight back. It always comes back to exposure to the truth - how do you work to expose this (and the role of journalism in this)

Seek the truth. Talk the truth. Even if that means being self critical and humble in admitting your mistakes and errors.

It is not your identity as Leaver, Remainer, Tory, Labour, LDer, SNPer, woman, man, English, Northern Irish, Scottish, Welsh or European right now.

These identities are harming us, by making us look at the wrong thing rather than see the real danger facing us. They divide us whilst they conquer us.

What you should be focusing on NOW is your commitment to democracy in the face of someone in power actively and explicity saying the rule of law does not matter and the courts are wrong. That is advocating mob rule.

Johnson stood and said threats to MPs were humbug. And refused to moderate his language despite so many (mainly female) MPs saying the threats they received were extremely serious (remembering we've even had a prosecution for a plot to kill Rosie Cooper as well as other successful prosecutions for threats to MPs)

This is where we are at.

Focus on it.

No Deal Brexit and the future of liberal democracy in this country are indivisible and inseparable. They are entwined by the rule of law.

Brexit is NOT in of itself a threat to liberal democracy. It is HOW we leave that is.

I wish this was being said and emphasised concisely and cleanly.

Brian Bilston is great! Here’s another one of his.

Reminiscent of "The Daily Mail Song"

The weird thing about Cendrillon is I've never seen them write anything pro Tory.

That’s because this has been the most utterly dismal period of Conservative Government in decades. I just don’t want it to be followed by a government that goes far, far beyond dismal into doing a socialist demolition job on the country.

Louise
I'll be there on 19th October shouting in favour of Parliamentary Democracy and a form of Brexit that protects the vulnerable.
I admit I'd prefer no Brexit but we have to start from where we are
If I see your Give us a Deal banner I'll say hello

I don't think it's coming Cendrillon

the weird thing about Cendrillon is that anyone still bothers to read what she writes

It's just standard reds under the beds isn't it? Posts during US hours. Bit Trumpy by any chance? (Genuine question. Life is too short to read bad-faith posts).

Doesn't "get" this community at all: thinks people like BCF are Corbyn fans? Lol.

I'm sure there'll be a dossier of evidence that everybody who posts on Westministenders is a lefty Corbyn Labourite, yes??? Because if not, WTF is this "your side!!!!!!" thing about?

That is true misti anyone who thinks that these threads are full of Corbyn fans really hasn't been paying attention!
(With the odd exception of course)

On the thread currently about how you'd vote tomorrow in a GE most is of Tory voters seem to be just anti Corbyn. Or what they think Corbyn is. State of today. Plenty of Labour voters saying "not Boris" btw before anyone jumps in!

There's the self-identified constitutional lawyer who popped up in the wake of the SC's decision, also goes around various threads (particularly any that mention Brexit or darling BlowJob), also very keen on the "your side" "you lot" "lefty socialist hell" language.

I think Im the main vocal if not at times the only Corbynite lefty here, certainly the most outspoken at any rate, I'm even a member of that dangerous lefty cult Momentum (Its like scientology but with pictures of Tony Benn up [eye roll])

I love Tony Benn!

With a caveat it's from Gartner, who would tell you the sky was green if you paid them to ....

www.theregister.co.uk/2019/09/27/jobs_survey_points_to_recession/

Employee confidence in the UK has fallen for the third consecutive quarter and the number of workers actively looking for new jobs is down 8 per cent as people hunker down for the perceived storms ahead.

That is true misti anyone who thinks that these threads are full of Corbyn fans really hasn't been paying attention!

There are some Corbyn supporters (it's not a crime ffs) but it's also somewhere where there is a huge range of political (right-left) opinions yet mostly respectful debate. Quite a lot of the regulars are what I'd call small c conservatives - there is a lot of support for old fashioned one nation type politics.

I'm centre left and I feel quite lefty on here sometimes!

I work in Apprenticeships and our people who liaise with employers are reporting surprising numbers of recent redundancies across a range of businesses. Anecdotal but thought I’d post it anyway.

There's the self-identified constitutional lawyer who popped up in the wake of the SC's decision

Which one ? There was quite a crop. Presumably they were taking time off from advising on parking and speeding fines ?

Yes, Mistigri, anyone who disagrees with you is obviously a Trump supporter from the US. I’ve got my MAGA hat on and am painting myself orange as we speak.

The consensus on here, as I understand from, er, reading the threads, is that Corbyn is an acceptable replacement for Boris. I happen to disagree, and particularly dislike the blindness to faults in the opposition, especially when the government is excoriated for the same things. Feel free to ignore me if you don’t care!

No tobee, the weird thing about Cendrillon is that anyone still bothers to read what she writes. It's been a very long time since she stopped pretending to engage in good faith.

That's me told!

The consensus on here, as I understand from, er, reading the threads, is that Corbyn is an acceptable replacement for Boris.

Have you read them? Because - certainly until this week - that was very much not the mood.

Events this week have changed opinions I think, in the direction of people being more prepared to accept any route (including a temporary Corbyn-led administration) to getting rid of Johnson. This is hardly reds under the beds territory though - Dan Hodges, pro-Brexit Mail on Sunday columnist posted something along the same lines. It's a view that cuts across right/left and even remain/leave lines among people who have an attachment to the rule of law.

I am Labour, ex-member on the self -id issue AND brexit, and I would be forced to hold my nose for Corbyn as PM. But hold my nose I would.
Cooper/Starmer/Beckett preferences.

Acceptable as an alternative to Johnson? A virus affecting the genitals.

The consensus

Interesting word. I think part of what we are seeing is an attempt to recreate the cult of personality from the previous century (where it worked so well) only without actual personalities. So there's a horizontal push being orchestrated to make a "consensus" from peer pressure. It may be controversial, but I suspect a lot of people telling other people how great Boris is are doing so because they are seeing a lot of other people telling each other how great Boris is doing.

It’s a question of any port in a storm @CendrillonSings. I’d vote for Satan if he’d see Johnson and Cummings off.

I'd think that the EU Commission would prefer an early change of PM in the UK so they can get on with better planning across the 27, esp those most affected by the trade routes.

FWIW I don't believe that CummJo hasn't thought of how to avoid a GNU replacing them.

They are ruthless, well-backed internationally and have the much longer goal of ending democracy in the UK. Nothing at all will be off the table.