The Brexit Arms

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Go BoJo!
Go BoJo!
Go BoJo!
Go BoJo!

So near & yet so far..............

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Out of interest..
Jas and bellini what do you envisage happening if the vote isn't honoured?

Shall leavers say.. Ok then, never mind...

What would be the next steps?

@Imnotthrowingawaymyshot , I'm hoping that people will start coming up with ideas to sort this. I don't care if it means people coming up with different ideas as long as they save GFA. But the only thing Leavers come up with is - everyone is mean to us and doesn't understand; it has to be no Deal.

How about having some sort of plan, or framework of leaving to not wreck the U.K.

Shouldn’t be too much to ask.

If the vote isn't honoured I imagine it will be fucking terrible. That is why I bother suggesting Leave alternatives to No Deal.
Why the fuck do you think I want to stop Leave. I want to stop No Deal.

Trouble is, if the vote is honoured it isn't going to be great either. Certainly not if it's no deal. What a mess.

How is making NI a special economic zone "wrecking the UK". When the alternative is No Deal which will wreck our entire country fir at least a generation.

Sorry bellin, I was answering the post above yours.

This is what we have to look forward to. Still hoping common sense will prevail and we revoke.

bellini I've got to disagree. If NI has special status then it will be good for them. Of course it will and lives will be saved.

But what about Scotland? There are tensions there at the moment that are in my opinion linked to Brexit.

Even though Scotland voted to remain by a large majority (significantly higher than northern Ireland) there has always been many of the sectarian issues there too, especially in the West Coast where I grew up.

Whilst i am not saying it is or will ever be as bad as NI, there are issues there. NI being treated differently will stoke tensions there.

Why should Scotland suffer?

I do believe they will eventually gain independence but it is clear that an extremist Tory govt will never allow that.

I agree that special concessions to NI Wil not go down well with Scotland. It may create issues in Eastern Europe too.

EU is in a pickle as if they loosen border laws in Ireland they will have to loosen borders in Eastern Europe.

That doesn't make any sense Mystery

The issue with Belli's idea is that a: Johnson will never ever agree to put it to the commons and b: the loyalist element in NI will rebel against it and they were the ones that started the troubles in 1968.

Johnson doesn't care if NI descends into violence, he will just say "its all the fault of the bombers, not brexit" and "violence cannot and will not be tolerated" as he signs the order to send British soldiers back into NI and the 'express and 'mail will cheer and so will most leavers as a price worth paying....oh and Corbyn is a friend of the terrorist.

As I always say, I don't care if it's something else as long as it's something. And I think Scotland would be pissed off whatever we do. What with being dragged out of the EU against its wishes. And the No vote campaign in Scotland being centred around "Vote No to stay in the EU"
The idea that independence in Scotland would get through, even if there were to be a vote is not a foregone conclusion but, as ever it would be their decision. Failure to offer a vote would be unsustainable. But concerns about Scotland's reaction is not a reason to flush us all down the toilet of No Deal if an NI specific option is there.
Seriously, does anyone have any better ideas?
I voted Remain, this is a suggested compromise so we Leave but avoid No Deal. Surely Leavers want more people like me?
Because if you go for No Deal you can be damn sure I will blame you for the consequences.
An orderly Brexit would be for all of us to make work. I'm prepared to do that. No Deal would be on you.

Having lived and worked in Europe, I'm very sceptical about the idea that EEurope wants to have a loose border with Putin's Russia. Crimea should show you why.

*bellini I may not necessarily agree with a NI backstop, but yeah, think you may have a point here!

Seriously, does anyone have any better ideas?

I've suggested this before but you must not have read it (you never said it was shit or not so I don't know (but you ignore or don't read most posts it seems)

The WA has elements like the financial settlement which are not going to be changed obviously.

Other than that, rip it up & instead go for EEA/EFTA & (time limited) CU.for a transitional period.

The time limited membership of CU to cease when future relationship has been negotiated.

The GE could then be run on clear future relationship Brexit objectives - Lib Dem, Labour etc would likely want to stay like that, Brexit Party would not, I suspect Tories would want to stay in EEA/EFTA but not CU

Because if you go for No Deal you can be damn sure I will blame you for the consequences

No deal is being forced by the parties that don’t want Brexit. They will vote against any form of Withdrawal Agreement because they don’t want Brexit. Without a withdrawal agreement you can’t make a deal.

So it’s either permanent extensions or leave without a deal. EU have stated they will not give extension without good reason such as referendum or general election. If they do it will be seen as admission they are afraid of losing their third largest donor.

Permanent extension creates further uncertainty. This will keep the pound low and may encourage UK based companies to relocate elsewhere. Service industry is very vulnerable as all they need is office space, desk, chairs, computers and telecommunications.

So if you want to blame someone for no deal, look to the parties that don’t believe in democracy and will vote against any withdrawal agreements which prevents a deal. Labour voted three times against the WA almost unanimously. The number of labour MPs who voted for the WA can be counted on one hand.

No deal is being forced by the parties that don’t want Brexit. They will vote against any form of Withdrawal Agreement because they don’t want Brexit. Without a withdrawal agreement you can’t make a deal.

Yep!

It is their last play for stopping Brexit altogether because they know that once we sign a WA then that is it.

Yep, why would any remainer MP vote to leave the EU on a WA that means absolutely anything to anyone?

The hard right in Govt would have taken the negotiations and gone for a very loose trade relationship with the EU or even none at all.... fear of the BXP would have driven this.

No deal is being forced by the parties that don’t want Brexit

Another yep!

No Brexit & no deal are the extremist positions in this

Neither are willing to compromise & this is why there is a risk there will be no agreement at all (leading to no deal ultimately)

Mystery I thought the deal already offered wasn't Brexit?

And forgive me if I'm wrong but I thought Brexiteers wanted No Deal. All 17.4 million of them - well I've seen that mentioned so many times. It is after all the Will of the People.

So how is that the fault of the remainers?

time4

Johnson doesn't want a deal, his only concern is to head off the BXP, he knows that BXP will surge in the polls, with any deal he might reach with the EU, so he has a set of impossible demands and will blame the EU when he comes away empty handed.

Any remainer MP would support leaving the EU via EFTA/EAA, few if any leaver MPs would.

But a nice try at blaming remainers for brexit chaos.

Any remainer MP would support leaving the EU via EFTA/EAA, few if any leaver MPs would.

Rubbish! 😂😂

Anti-brexit MPs will not support it, hard-brexit MPs would not support it.

Pragmatic remainers & pragmatic leavers would absolutely accept it.

Most Tories accepted the WA - it was Remain, ERG & most of Labour who rejected it

If they accepted the WA they'd accept EEA/EFTA