The Brexit Arms

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Go BoJo!
Go BoJo!
Go BoJo!
Go BoJo!

So near & yet so far..............

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Lib Dem are a bigger threat to SNP in Scotland than labour or Tories I think judging by a recent poll I saw

One of the Scottish constituencies I lived in is SNP/Lib Dem VERY marginal (2 votes 😂)
The other is Tory/SNP marginal

Dusty if your ideal scenario involves a hung Parliament and Labour tanking then you are likely proposing a Conservative / LibDem majority. The only thing the LibDems would extract for this would be a 2nd Ref. Then it would be a reset to Osbornomics. Is that what you want?

No!
Sorry...

My ideal is a Tory majority

In the event of a hung Parliament (which is highly likely) my ideal would be as I said - pragmatic cross party cooperation possibly going for EEA/EFTA transition with CU for transition whilst future relationship negotiated

I just want to see this current shitshow dissolved & replaced

The opposition will not vote for no confidence if they cannot agree a interim PM.

Far better from their POV to leave BJ to clean up his own mess, they want to see Johnson resign, ask for an extension or break the law.

Its just 3 weeks and he will have to do one of the above.

If the 2016 results had been reversed so that it was 52:48 in favour of Remain, would there have been any efforts made to reflect the fact nearly half wanted to leave the EU?

Dusty - our parliamentary system is naturally adversarial, there will be no cooperation in a hung parliament, let alone a cross party negotiating team.
We would need an extension for the GE and then another year or more for fresh talks, then all the tribalism trying to get it through Parliament.

So years more of this.

Lets just have another referendum (Mays deal or whatever BJ gets vs Remain) a GE and move on.

Brunch

There are enough problems atm without inventing them.

Dusty I have a hunch Stephen Gethins is safe but Jo Swinson may not be.

If there is another hung Parliament I don't see it cooperating to deliver Brexit. If anything I think soft Tory Remainers would feel vindicated and push to replace Boris before agreeing a 2nd Ref.

However the outcome of a 2nd Ref and the effect on support for the Brexit Party is much harder to predict.

Lets just have another referendum (Mays deal or whatever BJ gets vs Remain) a GE and move on.

No - another ref with Remain on the ballot is not valid.

If Remain is on the ballot then it would not be valid unless it exceeded the bar set by 2016 ref

Regardless, the WA is not a 'deal' - it is a transitional arrangement which provides time to negotiate the 'deal'

Any ref would need to be no-deal Brexit vs WA (with or without backstop)

I sincerely hope Gethins gets the boot!

The other constituency I used to live in is a Tory/SNP marginal (currently Tory) - I think it might stay Tory but obvs everything's in the air (Leave was 49.9% there)

My other hunch is that most of the Scottish Tories are safe. They may even gain seats.

That would be a true election night shocker!

My poor grandad will be spinning in his grave 😳

I spent many a fun hour winding him up about Margaret Thatcher 😂😂

@DustyDiamond - Margaret Thatcher was the only person my very polite, mild spoken DF said he hated. I’m very thankful he is back living in Belgium and doesn’t have to live through Brexit although I know he is having sleepless nights worrying about our family.

No - another ref with Remain on the ballot is not valid.
Of course it is.
What sort of referendum would ask Leave or Leave?

Only valid if it exceeds the bar set by 2016 vote

And?

Only valid if it exceeds the bar set by 2016 vote
Says who?

Says me

And I'm pretty sure millions of other voters who would not accept that it is in any way fair, just or democratic to declare the 2016 result voided by a minority.

Yawn. So how are you going to fix this situation? If it's no Deal, I'm sure you'll get everything you deserve.

Yawn. So how are you going to fix this situation?

I have no more power than you do to 'fix' anything.

Our power is our vote.

We were each given an equal voice via direct democracy in 2016 & Leave won.

Losers consent is a fundamental principle of democracy.
Without it there is chaos (as evidenced by the endless tantrumming of the 2016 losers)

If it's no Deal, I'm sure you'll get everything you deserve.

What do I 'deserve'?
And why do I, specifically, deserve it?

And I'm pretty sure millions of other voters who would not accept that it is in any way fair, just or democratic to declare the 2016 result voided by a minority.
And I'm pretty sure millions of other voters, including those who have reached voting age since 2016, would not accept that it was in any way fair, just or democratic to have their voices ignored. Many of those who voted in 2016 may also like to exercise their prerogative to change their minds, particularly now that they've seen Yellowhammer and been made aware of the delicate situation in NI and the utter incompetence of our negotiators. It's nonsense to suggest there should be two leave options and nothing else and I think you know it. And it's even bigger nonsense to include 'no deal' as an option - unless you're one of those 'don't believe in experts' types.

And I'm pretty sure millions of other voters, including those who have reached voting age since 2016, would not accept that it was in any way fair, just or democratic to have their voices ignored.

If they were not eligible to vote, then they were not 'ignored', they were simply ineligible.

Those eligible to vote were not ignored - every single vote was counted.

Many of those who voted in 2016 may also like to exercise their prerogative to change their minds, particularly now that they've seen Yellowhammer and been made aware of the delicate situation in NI and the utter incompetence of our negotiators.

We were told that whatever the result was, it would be enacted.

It has not been enacted.

We were Pre-warned if Armageddon before the day of the vote.

It's nonsense to suggest there should be two leave options and nothing else and I think you know it.

No it's not, it's perfectly reasonable.
The decision to leave was made in 2016; only clarity now required is deal or no deal.

And it's even bigger nonsense to include 'no deal' as an option - unless you're one of those 'don't believe in experts' types.

A significant number of people have expressed a preference for no deal & continue to do so.

I'm not a no-dealer & I have never, ever said that I am.

I would prefer a deal, but if there is no deal to be had then so be it.

You deserve all the good things that a No Deal Brexit will bring because you voted for it and it is what you wanted.

It has not been enacted.
Yes. Because of incompetence and a massive amount of ignorance (NI situation, Raab not realising we were dependent on our ports etc etc). It's time to stop fetishising the result of a 3 year old referendum and put our energies into trying to get the country back on an even keel.
No it's not, it's perfectly reasonable. The decision to leave was made in 2016; only clarity now required is deal or no deal.
What a load of bollocks. Here's a referendum folks... what do you want? To shaft your country (a) a bit or (b) a lot?
A significant number of people have expressed a preference for no deal & continue to do so.
So what? A significant number of people would express a preference for bringing back hanging and flogging. Do you think we should? A significant number of people would like to send all immigrants 'home' - even those who were born here . Do you think we should?
There have been 3 years for Leavers to get their act together. They've failed miserably. I'm sick of all the pandering to them to be honest.

You deserve all the good things that a No Deal Brexit will bring because you voted for it and it is what you wanted.
I agree. The trouble is that the no-dealers would be sucking all the rest of us into their calamity, too. No thanks. Anyone who thinks no deal should still be on the table - let alone on a referendum paper - needs their bumps read.