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Brexit

Westminstenders: Supreme Democracy

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 15/09/2019 19:45

Tuesday is the big day about prorogation.

The Supreme Court hears the case of Cherry and Miller against the government.

This could test the constitution and the union. The Supreme Court sits as both as a Scottish Court and and English Court and applies Scottish / English law accordingly. And there are differences. It is possible that prorogation might only be illegal under one or the other but would have effect on parliament. Or its possible that the Supreme Court might decide to uphold the government position.

What is encouraging is the constitutional expert blogs which suggest that they lean to the court intervening. It's important that for the A50 case the Supreme Court referenced the arguments in these blogs.

But let's not get too carried away.

As it is Joe Moor, former director of legislative affairs at 10 Downing Street wrote in today's Telegraph that Johnson could merely prorogue again from Oct 14 "until at least Nov 6" thus preventing parliamentary scrutiny of no deal which would help enable in effect illegally. The Times also reported Cummings as having said this to advisors.

This has been dismissed by legal experts, but the point remains there is a willingness to both frustrate parliament and be as obstructive as possible in the days leading up to 31st.

There is also the 'Nobile Officium' Court action designed to stop illegal no deal by allowing the courts to write a letter to the EU to request an extension of Johnson refuses to.

It remains to be seen if it has even a chance of success.

The British press has been full of comments of optimism for a deal this weekend. This is after there was positive noises in a similar vein from Brussels. These has since been largely dismissed as mere political will with no practical progress. The British optimism has also been dismissed as mere posturing. And Priti Patel "misspoke" when she appeared to suggest that no deal was no policy this morning.

Other rumours include the French willing to grant a 2year extension but not a 3month one out of fear this will happen repeatedly. The French are now pushing for a deal and relaxing their approach as such (but Germany won't compromise the single market and Ireland the GFA so its all talk).

And do not forget, for all the talk of a deal there are certain time restrains.

Apparently Nikki da Costa has a timetable to get a deal through parliament in 'just ten days' on a spreadsheet. So that gives you an idea that the 19th October is possibly the last day to get a deal in front of parliament if you completely accept that we are leaving without any extension. This neglects the issue that a new deal isn't on the table from the EU and the backstop isn't going anywhere.

A last minute deal or no deal situation is highly risky with the ERG on one side and hard core Remainers who think Johnson won't defy the Benn Amendment and thus will try and block a deal to the last

It seems that we will have a game of cat and mouse until the bitter end.

OP posts:
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Basilpots · 18/09/2019 10:51

Team Adler here too.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 18/09/2019 10:58

Kerry-Anne Mendoza
@TheMendozaWoman
·
32m
*Jeremy Corbyn picks a side

Media:

EXTREMIST!

*Jeremy Corbyn remains neutral

Media:

COWARD!

*Jeremy Corbyn breathes

Media:

JEREMY CORBYN WILL NATIONALISE OVARIES AND GENETICALLY ENGINEER YOUR BABIES INTO MARXISTS!

Grin Grin

Basilpots · 18/09/2019 11:06

Wouldn’t even say that in jest Just it will be on the front page of the DM by teatime.

DGRossetti · 18/09/2019 11:23

Meanwhile, drifting OT, but possibly more relevant that it seems ...

One of my FB feeds is "Angry people in local newspapers" which I recommend if you like to laugh while crying ...

www.largsandmillportnews.com/news/17890125.furious-bank-customer-says-closure-leaving-people-short-changed

TL;DR is the "furious" subject of the article is complaining that when the ATM runs out of money, it shuts down so he can't get his mini statement ...

Let's just leave that there for a second, before we remember that First Direct were offering telephone banking 30 years ago.

I'm used to despairing at folk that prefer the 19th century telephone over the 20th century email. But I have no words for someone that can't even get into the 19th century.

Comments made me smile ....

Anyway, the relevance, is the disparate nature of society, and how are we all going to rub along together ?

NoWordForFluffy · 18/09/2019 11:28

Is anyone else listening to / watching the feed today?

DGRossetti · 18/09/2019 11:29

.

Westminstenders: Supreme Democracy
Basilpots · 18/09/2019 11:40

People like being angry DG.

Basilpots · 18/09/2019 11:41

Facebook et al like people being angry it gets more clicks.

BigChocFrenzy · 18/09/2019 11:44

"Johnson genuinely is so lazy he does not understand the problem and he does not know what to do, so the only way he can act is to try and bluff and blame his way out of it."

Yep, they've summed him up perfectly

Only surprise is ... that it was a surprise to them.
If it really was.

NotaRealLawyer · 18/09/2019 11:45

Is anyone else listening to / watching the feed today?
Yes, watching and following tweets NoWordForFluffy
Enjoying James Eadie being pressed on some of his arguments.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 18/09/2019 11:47

Not which tweeters would be worth following on this?

NotaRealLawyer · 18/09/2019 11:49

twitter.com/JoshuaRozenberg is good Just but his link seems to be saying everything twice today.Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 18/09/2019 11:51

My issue with LauraK is that she keeps treating seriously No. 10's spin about replacing the backstop
Like that fantasy she just posted about HoC numbers for a revised deal

Oy, @LauraK:
Wake up, you prat !
The EU won't accept this ludicrous rubbish; there are no serious negotiations - it's a CON by the CONs

She's either being deliberately dishonest to toe the govt line, or she is a naive, ignorant fool
Either way, she's not fit for her job

DGRossetti · 18/09/2019 11:52

I had to "Hide pages like this" a few times Grin it can get a bit too rich for my tastes ...

ListeningQuietly · 18/09/2019 11:58

Re LibDem - Revoke the day after winning an election
As one of their MEPs QUITE RIGHTLY said last night on the ITV news
If we have won an outright General Election, we will have a mandate to do what we want with A50

ListeningQuietly · 18/09/2019 11:59

PS, watched a bit of James Eadie on TV - still do not recollect him having a personality even though I met him loads of times as a kid Grin

Mistigri · 18/09/2019 11:59

Laura K. is why I have most BBC news and politics accounts muted on twitter. I don't have a major dislike of her or anything, just think that she provides absolutely nothing that other people don't do better. Muting BBC news accounts saves my timeline being spammed by dumbed down BBC takes on Brexit (and people's predictably exasperated responses).

NotaRealLawyer · 18/09/2019 12:01

Also, Charlie Falconer
twitter.com/LordCFalconer
And twitter.com/DavidAllenGreen ( he has a pinned tweet at top which is a bit confusing so scroll down)

Mistigri · 18/09/2019 12:01

As one of their MEPs QUITE RIGHTLY* said last night on the ITV news
If we have won an outright General Election, we will have a mandate to do what we want with A50*

Totally agree. I don't understand what is so difficult about this. It ain't gonna happen, but if it did, it would be an undeniable mandate for revoke.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 18/09/2019 12:08

Thanks Not

JustAnotherPoster00 · 18/09/2019 12:09

BREAKING: CORBYN PREVAILS ON LABOUR’S BREXIT POSITION WITH ‘SENSIBLE LEAVE’

skwawkbox.org/2019/09/17/breaking-corbyn-prevails-on-labours-brexit-position/

Not sure how I feel about this yet, but pragmatically it makes sense

prettybird · 18/09/2019 12:10

Yes: Jo Swinson even though I don't like herhas been very careful and explicit in the words she uses - to the fury of journalists who don't like precision, because it rules out mixed messages and interpretation.

Beth Rigby (who I usually like) was almost apoplectic yesterday in her interview, insisting that it was undemocratic, without hearing the "if we won a majority" bit of what JS had said Confused

DadDadDad · 18/09/2019 12:12

On the LibDem policy, I'd be happy to see a revoke, and I agree that (highly hypothetical scenario) that they won a majority, it would be democratic to do so if it's in their manifesto.

My worry is that it's going to be something all their opponents attack them for, making it hard for them to get out the message on any of their other policies. Every interviewer from now until election is going to focus on this. And it may put off some voters (Tory-leaning?) who are thinking of voting for them, but maybe think we should only revoke if we have another referendum that confirms that first.

It would be a democratic action if LD won the election, but it would not help heal divisions.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 18/09/2019 12:13

'Any political leader who wants to bring the country together cannot wish away the votes of 17 million who wanted to leave any more than they can ignore the concerns of the 16 million who voted to remain...'

  • Jeremy Corbyn
NotaRealLawyer · 18/09/2019 12:19

Not sure if this has been posted already for those following the Supreme Court? Live blog from Day2.

ukscblog.com/

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