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Brexit

Westminstenders: Supreme Democracy

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 15/09/2019 19:45

Tuesday is the big day about prorogation.

The Supreme Court hears the case of Cherry and Miller against the government.

This could test the constitution and the union. The Supreme Court sits as both as a Scottish Court and and English Court and applies Scottish / English law accordingly. And there are differences. It is possible that prorogation might only be illegal under one or the other but would have effect on parliament. Or its possible that the Supreme Court might decide to uphold the government position.

What is encouraging is the constitutional expert blogs which suggest that they lean to the court intervening. It's important that for the A50 case the Supreme Court referenced the arguments in these blogs.

But let's not get too carried away.

As it is Joe Moor, former director of legislative affairs at 10 Downing Street wrote in today's Telegraph that Johnson could merely prorogue again from Oct 14 "until at least Nov 6" thus preventing parliamentary scrutiny of no deal which would help enable in effect illegally. The Times also reported Cummings as having said this to advisors.

This has been dismissed by legal experts, but the point remains there is a willingness to both frustrate parliament and be as obstructive as possible in the days leading up to 31st.

There is also the 'Nobile Officium' Court action designed to stop illegal no deal by allowing the courts to write a letter to the EU to request an extension of Johnson refuses to.

It remains to be seen if it has even a chance of success.

The British press has been full of comments of optimism for a deal this weekend. This is after there was positive noises in a similar vein from Brussels. These has since been largely dismissed as mere political will with no practical progress. The British optimism has also been dismissed as mere posturing. And Priti Patel "misspoke" when she appeared to suggest that no deal was no policy this morning.

Other rumours include the French willing to grant a 2year extension but not a 3month one out of fear this will happen repeatedly. The French are now pushing for a deal and relaxing their approach as such (but Germany won't compromise the single market and Ireland the GFA so its all talk).

And do not forget, for all the talk of a deal there are certain time restrains.

Apparently Nikki da Costa has a timetable to get a deal through parliament in 'just ten days' on a spreadsheet. So that gives you an idea that the 19th October is possibly the last day to get a deal in front of parliament if you completely accept that we are leaving without any extension. This neglects the issue that a new deal isn't on the table from the EU and the backstop isn't going anywhere.

A last minute deal or no deal situation is highly risky with the ERG on one side and hard core Remainers who think Johnson won't defy the Benn Amendment and thus will try and block a deal to the last

It seems that we will have a game of cat and mouse until the bitter end.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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OhYouBadBadKitten · 18/09/2019 06:50

I'd forgotten about pallets.

LizzieSiddal · 18/09/2019 07:00

No-one has mentioned Liz Truss and the Saudi arms deal? They have broken the agreement knowingly!

Isn’t it a coincidence that this happened whilst Parliament is prorogued.Hmm

fedup21 · 18/09/2019 07:04

Is Gina Miller having to fund any or all of her part of the court case? I bet this is costing a fortune.

It really worries me if they rule that the government can just do what they want. That will have serious repercussions for the future.

BigChocFrenzy · 18/09/2019 07:08

Bettel's anger highlights a bleak truth: the EU27 just wants Britain to go

I've been hearing such mutterings for several months now - I don't know how widespread this is

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/16/bettels-anger-highlights-a-bleak-truth-the-eu27-just-wants-britain-to-go

Many now dread the prospect, remote as it may seem, of a second referendum.
“Why on earth would you want a country so bitterly and hopelessly divided to stay?”
asked one diplomat.

“The wounds are going to last generations. How damaging would that be to Europe?
Come back, maybe – but leave and sort things out first.”
......
For all those reasons, the EU would, on the whole, prefer Britain to leave now, if possible quite soon.

And as Bettel’s irritation showed, it is fast tiring of a psychodrama that is costing it time, money and anxiety,
and that is none of its making.

Calyx72 · 18/09/2019 07:14

Sky news app on my phone just called Jo Swinson "The Farage of Remain"
Bet that's not how she sees herself Grin

LizzieSiddal · 18/09/2019 07:14

fedup If I remember correctly, the costs of the case are being crowdfunded.

Songsofexperience · 18/09/2019 07:14

Scotland was favourite but New Zealand wins bid to host the shoot of Amazon's Lord of the Rings series because of uncertainty over brexit. So frustrating. Scotland needs to cut itself off from that sinking brexshit ship:

www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2019/sep/18/amazons-lord-of-the-rings-tv-show-to-be-filmed-in-new-zealand

Songsofexperience · 18/09/2019 07:16

Quick anecdote: i caught the Eurostar this morning.
UK passport holders were made to join the non EU queue.

Motheroffourdragons · 18/09/2019 07:18

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

NoWordForFluffy · 18/09/2019 07:30

That's disgusting, Mother. And the reported rape which RTB posted yesterday. This country is fucking vile. I'm so ashamed to be part of it at times.

BigChocFrenzy · 18/09/2019 07:31

What a time for Labour to send this message to the young: 🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/17/labour-purges-its-student-wing-ahead-of-party-conference

The founder of Momentum, a key ally of Jeremy Corbynn^, has succeeded in a bid to make the party effectively abolish its 40-year-old student wing,
which is dominated by the more centrist side of the party.

Jon Lansman won the backing of Labour’s ruling national executive committee (NEC) for a motion that argued Labour Students was not officially affiliated and should be replaced.
......
“The Labour party should be focusing all its energies on winning the next general election, not Jon Lansman’s factional vendettas against Labour Students.
It is literally student politicking, when we’re in the fight our lives for the future of the country.”
......
“Why at such a critical time in our country, and with an election on the horizon, does anyone who wants Labour to be an effective force for good think this is the time for such attempts to silence parts of our youth movement ,
when we need them to be seen and heard campaigning?”

Motheroffourdragons · 18/09/2019 07:32

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

BigChocFrenzy · 18/09/2019 07:37

DIsgusting hostility by some Brexiters to women of colour
and indeed their aggressive attemps to frighten & silence any woman who opposes them

Note they seem to tolerate - or seethe in silence - those on their own side, like Priti Patel,
but viciously attack WoC who oppose any hard right policies

NoWordForFluffy · 18/09/2019 07:37

WTAF is Labour up to?! I despair of that party right now.

At what point did we turn the corner down this fucking road? What have we become? I've never felt so fucking despondent about the state of politics and the country in general.

RedToothBrush · 18/09/2019 07:37

Today's FT front cover and editorial are different

Westminstenders: Supreme Democracy
Westminstenders: Supreme Democracy
OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 18/09/2019 07:42

It's usually a good idea for any prospective PM to look at what Cameron did - and then do the opposite !

Corbyn copying Harold Wilson's pragmatism 😎 on a referendum:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/17/corbyn-vows-to-put-sensible-brexit-deal-to-voters-in-referendum

Corbyn’s statement is the strongest sign yet that he will resist demands to pick a side and would opt to stay out of campaigning in a second referendum on a Labour-negotiated Brexit deal,
allowing him to pitch himself as the neutral referee who pledges to carry out whatever the public decides.

This would help avoid the situation David Cameron found himself in as prime minister in 2016, when he resigned from No 10 after ending up on the losing side.
....
“A Labour government would secure a sensible deal based on the terms we have long advocated, including a new customs union with the EU; a close single market relationship;
and guarantees of workers’ rights and environmental protections ....

We would then put that to a public vote alongside remain.
I pledge to carry out whatever the people decide, as a Labourr^ prime minister.”

FishesaPlenty · 18/09/2019 08:00

Figures show more than 11,000 HGV operators applied for a European Conference of Ministers of Transport (ECMT) permit but less than 1,000 of the annual passes were made available.

The Government are not prepared to issue the correct paperwork. You can’t just blame this on the poor businesses.

It's not that they're not prepared to issue the paperwork, they can only issue the number of permits they've been allocated. Historically we've only needed a small number of permits and never issued anything like our allocation.

But anyway, I wouldn't get too hung up on the issue of permits, at the very worst it's expected to slightly impact the profits of some marginal operators with a certain business model. It's not expected to cause any extra problems in actually getting goods delivered.

prettybird · 18/09/2019 08:44

It did amuse me that there was an item on BBC Breakfast about the University of Warwick successfully they think developing a haricot bean that can be grown in the UK for our baked beans because at the moment they all have to be imported Grin

I know that the research has been going on for years but.....Wink

LizzieSiddal · 18/09/2019 08:44

Editor of FT is on R4 now discussing the editorial.

usuallydormant · 18/09/2019 08:45

For those getting addicted to live parliament, EU parliament currently discussing Brexit

www.facebook.com/europeanparliament/videos/1741609185983093/

JuliaCheeser · 18/09/2019 08:48

Another bulletin to the "faithful". Last couple of sentences are grim.
Starts here:

Julia, you might have missed it
James Cleverly, Conservative Party Co-Chairman Unsubscribe
8:03 AM (26 minutes ago)

Dear Julia,
Yesterday the Liberal Democrats’ conference came to a close.

It would be easy to have missed it. But this is what you need to know.

Despite calling themselves “Democrats” they want to ignore the biggest vote in British history and cancel Brexit.

Jo Swinson confirmed the Liberal Democrats would revoke Article 50 and cancel Brexit without even having a second referendum.

Don’t let the Liberal Democrats get away with it. Donate to the Conservative Party today.
Donate £20
Donate £50
Donate £100
Donate £200
The Liberal Democrats’ plans will just cause more pointless delay, division and uncertainty. See Jeremy Corbyn as Prime Minister. And risk important issues at home not getting the attention they deserve.

They are already working with Corbyn. So we all know that they would be willing to put him in Downing Street at the head of a remain alliance government – no matter what they say now.

And when they did talk about something other than Brexit, they proved they don’t share the values of the British people.

They want to raise taxes on workers and businesses – meaning people will keep less of the money they earn.

They want to stop automatically sending people to prison for carrying knives and acid – making our streets less safe.

And they want to give free smartphones to people claiming benefits – a slap in the face for hardworking taxpayers.

But with your help the Liberal Democrats will never be able to put these plans into action. Support our campaigns by donating today.
Donate now
Yours,

James Cleverly
Chairman of the Conservative Party

MockersthefeMANist · 18/09/2019 08:49

a haricot bean that can be grown in the UK for our baked beans because at the moment they all have to be imported...

...as do all the plum tomatoes needed for the sauce, and the iron ore for the steel in the cans.

Peregrina · 18/09/2019 08:58

My thoughts about Corbyn trying to be neutral was that it's too late now. If he had said straight after the Refendum that he was taking a leaf out of Harold Wilson's book, I think it may have worked.

As for the Tory propaganda - would that bring wavering Tories back? I personally don't think so, but it will be lapped up by the hard right. I would be annoyed if I had been a moderate Tory who didn't want Brexit to be told I didn't share British values.

Violetparis · 18/09/2019 08:58

I also find Andrew Adonis smug and annoying along with many other Remain voices on Twitter.

MockersthefeMANist · 18/09/2019 09:01

...difficult not to be smug when you are 'Lord Adonis.'

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