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Brexit

Westminstenders: Supreme Democracy

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 15/09/2019 19:45

Tuesday is the big day about prorogation.

The Supreme Court hears the case of Cherry and Miller against the government.

This could test the constitution and the union. The Supreme Court sits as both as a Scottish Court and and English Court and applies Scottish / English law accordingly. And there are differences. It is possible that prorogation might only be illegal under one or the other but would have effect on parliament. Or its possible that the Supreme Court might decide to uphold the government position.

What is encouraging is the constitutional expert blogs which suggest that they lean to the court intervening. It's important that for the A50 case the Supreme Court referenced the arguments in these blogs.

But let's not get too carried away.

As it is Joe Moor, former director of legislative affairs at 10 Downing Street wrote in today's Telegraph that Johnson could merely prorogue again from Oct 14 "until at least Nov 6" thus preventing parliamentary scrutiny of no deal which would help enable in effect illegally. The Times also reported Cummings as having said this to advisors.

This has been dismissed by legal experts, but the point remains there is a willingness to both frustrate parliament and be as obstructive as possible in the days leading up to 31st.

There is also the 'Nobile Officium' Court action designed to stop illegal no deal by allowing the courts to write a letter to the EU to request an extension of Johnson refuses to.

It remains to be seen if it has even a chance of success.

The British press has been full of comments of optimism for a deal this weekend. This is after there was positive noises in a similar vein from Brussels. These has since been largely dismissed as mere political will with no practical progress. The British optimism has also been dismissed as mere posturing. And Priti Patel "misspoke" when she appeared to suggest that no deal was no policy this morning.

Other rumours include the French willing to grant a 2year extension but not a 3month one out of fear this will happen repeatedly. The French are now pushing for a deal and relaxing their approach as such (but Germany won't compromise the single market and Ireland the GFA so its all talk).

And do not forget, for all the talk of a deal there are certain time restrains.

Apparently Nikki da Costa has a timetable to get a deal through parliament in 'just ten days' on a spreadsheet. So that gives you an idea that the 19th October is possibly the last day to get a deal in front of parliament if you completely accept that we are leaving without any extension. This neglects the issue that a new deal isn't on the table from the EU and the backstop isn't going anywhere.

A last minute deal or no deal situation is highly risky with the ERG on one side and hard core Remainers who think Johnson won't defy the Benn Amendment and thus will try and block a deal to the last

It seems that we will have a game of cat and mouse until the bitter end.

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cherin · 16/09/2019 20:29

This is worrying though. It really plays in his role of victim of the sophisticated bully.

thecatfromjapan · 16/09/2019 20:35

I don't know, Cherin.
It looks bad.

The Brexit people who are inclined that way will go along with any narrative at this stage - the cognitive dissonance is unreachable.

Everyone else will be just 😯.

The thing is, with Johnson, everyone knows what they've got. It's no secret. For some, it just no longer matters. Which is worrying - because it's very nearly a license to do anything - nothing will alienate the core.

I do wonder if the only place all this matters is within the Conservative Party.

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 16/09/2019 20:42

@mirrorpolitics
UK Government breaks court ruling banning new arms sale licences to Saudi Arabia
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/uk-government-breaks-court-ruling-20076498

No one else reporting on this. Yet I guess.

cherin · 16/09/2019 20:44

They’re too busy coming to terms with having flown to Luxembourg for a massive waste of time. If you want to do a clown show like that you can do it at home (as shown multiple times), no need to get a free lunch and 3 hours with 3 heads of state/equivalent role

tobee · 16/09/2019 20:45

I suppose all that matters wrt a general election is that just enough people read that Johnson is a lying toad. But... I'm not sure I trust the electorate any more. Sad

TheABC · 16/09/2019 20:51

I suspect a lot of Leave voters know exactly how bad Johnson is, but at this stage they are prepared to put up with anything in order to secure Brexit.

It's crucifying the future Tory vote. Myself and almost everyone in my circle of friends would be considered a typical Tory target group as home-owners, professionals, entrepreneurs, etc. Not one of us will forgive them for this mess in the years to come.

fedup21 · 16/09/2019 20:58

Tomorrow we will get the ruling of the UK Supreme Court to which the English and Scottish courts are subservient.

Aha, right-thank you for explaining.

Lots saying EU is humiliating a UK PM and wouldn’t do so to any other leader.Indeed.

I just don’t get how this has been spun as the EU humiliating BJ! He’s managing that all by himself Angry.

cordeliajackson · 16/09/2019 20:59

The sort of folks who do this sort of thing, don't normally worry about 'forgiving'; that usually has to do with old fashioned things like 'moral compasses'.

Grinchly · 16/09/2019 21:01

Catching up but my Dad fought in war also.
Navigating Mosquitos.
He would be appalled by what is happening.

cordeliajackson · 16/09/2019 21:02

No one alive, hasn't go folks who survived the war, by fighting or collaborating.
But we are where we are. Nearly 100 years of peace later.

bellinisurge · 16/09/2019 21:03

There's a possibility that Johnson is going to shaft Brexiteers with a soft Brexit. I would almost pay money to see them all squirm.

Grinchly · 16/09/2019 21:03

the cat
Wholly agree.

thecatfromjapan · 16/09/2019 21:03

I'd like to see more of this. Particularly from the communications teams in Labour and the Lib Dems.

Idealistic of me, I know.

But it's an actual crisis of democracy & I'm currently unimpressed.

Westminstenders: Supreme Democracy
cordeliajackson · 16/09/2019 21:09

Little heads up from the great Gina Miller.

Anyone who shows up outside the Supreme Court on Tuesday bearing a “Stop Brexit!” banner will have demonstrated they have seriously misunderstood why I’ve brought my case against the government and what it stands for

This is about so much more, and at the same time, everything that has happened for the last 4 plus years.

www.independent.co.uk/voices/supreme-court-brexit-prorogue-boris-johnson-parliament-gina-miller-a9107571.html

Penscombe · 16/09/2019 21:12

From a friend who was at today’s protest in Luxembourg. The crowd of middle aged expats were asked to be quiet during the press conference so that Boris could be heard. They agreed to respect that.
And indeed were quiet when Bettel spoke.

Suspect BJ does not want that known - I suspect the used it as an excuse.

thecatfromjapan · 16/09/2019 21:15

That's quite the scoop, Penscombe.

It does point to the fact he avoided the presser for reasons other than the noise.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/09/2019 21:16

Well we know who the chicken is, now.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/09/2019 21:20

😂😂 #EmptyPodium4PM !

Dmitry Grozoubinski@DmitryOpines

Snap polling puts Empty Podium at 64% for preferred Prime Minister,
a force to be reckoned with in any upcoming General Election.

MarshaBradyo · 16/09/2019 21:22
Grin
BigChocFrenzy · 16/09/2019 21:23

John Cracee@JohnJCrace*

Incredible Sulk morphs from green to yellow as he is bested by Bettel !

cordeliajackson · 16/09/2019 21:29

Incredible Sulk morphs from green to yellow as he is bested by Bettel

The crowd of middle aged expats were asked to be quiet during the press conference so that Boris could be heard. They agreed to respect that

Any one who thinks this is funny is a complete moron.

This was clearly set up, scripted, staged, filmed and will be shown on a loop to the believers who think the foreigners and colloborators are out to get them.

Think.

Many of you have had good public money spent on you to do so.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/09/2019 21:31

James Melville@JamesMelville

Rule Britannia!
Britannia rule the waves.
Britons never, never, never shall...scuttle away from a press conference with the Luxembourg Prime Minister because of a few protesters.

Peregrina · 16/09/2019 21:35

Well we know who the chicken is, now.

Do the True BeLeavers know this?

BigChocFrenzy · 16/09/2019 21:37

BJ would also have gained from headlines showing how impressive he looked in front of respectful / adoring crowds

His supporters will support him until he runs away from that ditch, then they'll scream betrayal and find the next hard right "hard man"

We "morons" take our fun where we find it

The alternative of slitting our wrists to the sound of Leonard Cohen does not appeal

cordeliajackson · 16/09/2019 21:38

Rule Britannia
Still think it's funny. I see. You've clearly got no skin in this game.

The EU is based on mutual support and empathy, but clearly some english folks are just too selfish to even realise that.

Nasty.