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Brexit

Westminstenders: Supreme Democracy

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 15/09/2019 19:45

Tuesday is the big day about prorogation.

The Supreme Court hears the case of Cherry and Miller against the government.

This could test the constitution and the union. The Supreme Court sits as both as a Scottish Court and and English Court and applies Scottish / English law accordingly. And there are differences. It is possible that prorogation might only be illegal under one or the other but would have effect on parliament. Or its possible that the Supreme Court might decide to uphold the government position.

What is encouraging is the constitutional expert blogs which suggest that they lean to the court intervening. It's important that for the A50 case the Supreme Court referenced the arguments in these blogs.

But let's not get too carried away.

As it is Joe Moor, former director of legislative affairs at 10 Downing Street wrote in today's Telegraph that Johnson could merely prorogue again from Oct 14 "until at least Nov 6" thus preventing parliamentary scrutiny of no deal which would help enable in effect illegally. The Times also reported Cummings as having said this to advisors.

This has been dismissed by legal experts, but the point remains there is a willingness to both frustrate parliament and be as obstructive as possible in the days leading up to 31st.

There is also the 'Nobile Officium' Court action designed to stop illegal no deal by allowing the courts to write a letter to the EU to request an extension of Johnson refuses to.

It remains to be seen if it has even a chance of success.

The British press has been full of comments of optimism for a deal this weekend. This is after there was positive noises in a similar vein from Brussels. These has since been largely dismissed as mere political will with no practical progress. The British optimism has also been dismissed as mere posturing. And Priti Patel "misspoke" when she appeared to suggest that no deal was no policy this morning.

Other rumours include the French willing to grant a 2year extension but not a 3month one out of fear this will happen repeatedly. The French are now pushing for a deal and relaxing their approach as such (but Germany won't compromise the single market and Ireland the GFA so its all talk).

And do not forget, for all the talk of a deal there are certain time restrains.

Apparently Nikki da Costa has a timetable to get a deal through parliament in 'just ten days' on a spreadsheet. So that gives you an idea that the 19th October is possibly the last day to get a deal in front of parliament if you completely accept that we are leaving without any extension. This neglects the issue that a new deal isn't on the table from the EU and the backstop isn't going anywhere.

A last minute deal or no deal situation is highly risky with the ERG on one side and hard core Remainers who think Johnson won't defy the Benn Amendment and thus will try and block a deal to the last

It seems that we will have a game of cat and mouse until the bitter end.

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dontcallmelen · 16/09/2019 19:05

Channel four news a lot more balanced, than the BBC news earlier.

NoWordForFluffy · 16/09/2019 19:06

Ooh. I wonder if work will let me watch it? Maybe I can claim CPD (not that we technically do CPD now, but its replacement!) for watching it!

placemats · 16/09/2019 19:07

It's not as if it's never happened before, with other world leaders.

Never, ever happened.

mummmy2017 · 16/09/2019 19:13
BestIsWest · 16/09/2019 19:18

Pmk

thecatfromjapan · 16/09/2019 19:18

I'm wondering about going to the Supreme Court tomorrow.

Does anyone know what time the judgement is due?

fedup21 · 16/09/2019 19:24

What happens if the Scottish court say in eying and the English one says another!?

thecatfromjapan · 16/09/2019 19:28

I think someone (Red? BigChoc?) discusses that two threads back.

I think the tl:dr was that it might be embarrassing but not much more (though has implications for perceptions, esp. with regards to union).

Ruling probably set to wriggle out of actually doing anything.

thecatfromjapan · 16/09/2019 19:29

But I think I might like to go just to give a cheer for Joanna Cherry.

Oakenbeach · 16/09/2019 19:43

What happens if the Scottish court say in eying and the English one says another!?

That’s already happened... the English High Court ruled the matter was - to paraphrase - a political not a legal one.

Tomorrow we will get the ruling of the UK Supreme Court to which the English and Scottish courts are subservient.

Penscombe · 16/09/2019 19:43

Am a Brit living in Luxembourg and am damn proud of what was achieved by my fellow Brits here today.

They showed clearly the fact that Boris is a cowardly old Buffon.

This was hardly a violent dangerous Protest but he ran away.

We have felt ignored and abandoned by our home country for 3 Years. I am sure BJ does not give a damn but I will bet my Brexit stockpile of marmite, custard and mint sauce that he feels pretty humiliated and pissed by what happened today here in Luxembourg.

We love our PM - Xavier Bettel.

I have heard him speak in person about the need for tolerance and unity several times. We have the highest level of immigration in Europe here (over 50% were born elsewhere) but we live in a tolerant and accepting Community. I wish all EU migrants in the UK could feel the same but fear that since 2016 this is not the case.

In 2017 Bettel committed the British could stay. He told us he did not want to lose us and understood our need for some security. I am very grateful to him. Others in the UK and EU are not so lucky.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/09/2019 19:46

Looking at the podium where BJ should have been, he is The Invisible Hulk

NoWordForFluffy · 16/09/2019 19:47

The judgment isn't due until Fri / Mon, so don't hang around waiting tomorrow!

thecatfromjapan · 16/09/2019 19:48

Penscombe 💐💐💐💐

thecatfromjapan · 16/09/2019 19:48

Blimey! Thanks, Fluffy!

thecatfromjapan · 16/09/2019 19:50

The last few posts have made me realise I'm really falling behind with events.

Which is actually quite good, because I'm trying (not very successfully) to take a break. 🤷‍♀️

BigChocFrenzy · 16/09/2019 19:51

Penscombe 🤛🏼 It's how I feel in Germany
The UK govt, supposed to look out for my interests, doesn't give a shit about me, so I'm fortunate the German govt is being decent and letting us all stay.

L1minal · 16/09/2019 19:54

Well, I just saw the 'get ready for Brexit' TV ad for the first time. Jolly, upbeat and cheery.

Strangely enough it did nothing to allay my fears for my 90+ DF, who lives alone hundreds of miles away from me and is dependent on medication. He actually fought in the war that we're always being told by leavers is such a great example to us all. Despite that, he still voted to remain.

If he dies as a result of this colossal fuck up.....well, words fail me. Even the sight of Johnson makes me want to vomit.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/09/2019 20:00

As well as EU exasperation over the Tory party creating all this mess,
maybe also personal payback for BJ's years of lies against the EU ?

Now that they are certain there are no new British proposals worth considering, nothing to lose
Sometimes the personal side does matter, if someone is say exceptionally good or an utter shit

Lewis Goodall@lewisgoodall

Lots saying EU is humiliating a UK PM and wouldn’t do so to any other leader.
Indeed.

But Johnson is uniquely disliked by EU leaders.

They think he’s disrespected them for decades.

One source said:
“He’s spent his career lying about the EU. There was always going to be pushback.”

Another said
“Johnson is viewed as a demagogue and a populist by most.
Bettel [Luxembourg PM] is just more honest than others.”

flouncyfanny · 16/09/2019 20:02

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/09/2019 20:02

L1 My late dad fought from the start of WW2
In solidarity, wishing your dad all the best 💐
We owe them a lot.

cherin · 16/09/2019 20:10

Its unbelivable. I’m losing faith, if the press manages to spin this shit show as anything vaguely presentable and not admit its the Nth replica of a CompleteWasteOfTime where Sloppy goes for “work” to a fancy lunch paid by others, gets absolutely nothing done, refuses scrutiny, and still gets an interview by the state broadcast where he’s not ripped apart for his inconsistencies....he might as well use children language, but by Jove we’re not all idiots!!!!

L1minal · 16/09/2019 20:11

Thanks, BigChoc

BigChocFrenzy · 16/09/2019 20:12

Fits in with many other reports re Hungary's vote on extension:

Hungary is heavily dependent on EU funds to sustain its economic development,
so won't want to piss off everyone by vetoing ..... with the next 7-year budget to be decided next year

  • certainly not just to please a faction of a hard right faction in the UK.

However, note the "alone" below:
they'd probably support other EU members who might oppose an extension

Peter Foster@pmdfoster

CC all Brexiteers with over-active imaginations who seem unable to calculate balance of interests among EU member states.

Jennifer Rankin@JenniferMerode

Is Viktor Orbán going to veto extension of article 50 because Tory backbenchers ask?

No, says Orbán's chief of staff.

Gergely Gulyas told @Reuters
"it can be excluded that Hungary would make [such] a move alone".

BigChocFrenzy · 16/09/2019 20:15

I wonder who the "senior EU figure" is ?
Too many possibilities !

https://www.businessinsider.com/boris-johnson-mocked-after-comparing-brexit-to-hulk-breaking-chains-2019-9?r=US&IR=T

UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson has been labeled "Trumpian" and "infantile" by a senior European Union figure
after comparing Britain leaving the EU to the Hulk smashing out of his chains.

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