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Brexit

Westminstenders: Supreme Democracy

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 15/09/2019 19:45

Tuesday is the big day about prorogation.

The Supreme Court hears the case of Cherry and Miller against the government.

This could test the constitution and the union. The Supreme Court sits as both as a Scottish Court and and English Court and applies Scottish / English law accordingly. And there are differences. It is possible that prorogation might only be illegal under one or the other but would have effect on parliament. Or its possible that the Supreme Court might decide to uphold the government position.

What is encouraging is the constitutional expert blogs which suggest that they lean to the court intervening. It's important that for the A50 case the Supreme Court referenced the arguments in these blogs.

But let's not get too carried away.

As it is Joe Moor, former director of legislative affairs at 10 Downing Street wrote in today's Telegraph that Johnson could merely prorogue again from Oct 14 "until at least Nov 6" thus preventing parliamentary scrutiny of no deal which would help enable in effect illegally. The Times also reported Cummings as having said this to advisors.

This has been dismissed by legal experts, but the point remains there is a willingness to both frustrate parliament and be as obstructive as possible in the days leading up to 31st.

There is also the 'Nobile Officium' Court action designed to stop illegal no deal by allowing the courts to write a letter to the EU to request an extension of Johnson refuses to.

It remains to be seen if it has even a chance of success.

The British press has been full of comments of optimism for a deal this weekend. This is after there was positive noises in a similar vein from Brussels. These has since been largely dismissed as mere political will with no practical progress. The British optimism has also been dismissed as mere posturing. And Priti Patel "misspoke" when she appeared to suggest that no deal was no policy this morning.

Other rumours include the French willing to grant a 2year extension but not a 3month one out of fear this will happen repeatedly. The French are now pushing for a deal and relaxing their approach as such (but Germany won't compromise the single market and Ireland the GFA so its all talk).

And do not forget, for all the talk of a deal there are certain time restrains.

Apparently Nikki da Costa has a timetable to get a deal through parliament in 'just ten days' on a spreadsheet. So that gives you an idea that the 19th October is possibly the last day to get a deal in front of parliament if you completely accept that we are leaving without any extension. This neglects the issue that a new deal isn't on the table from the EU and the backstop isn't going anywhere.

A last minute deal or no deal situation is highly risky with the ERG on one side and hard core Remainers who think Johnson won't defy the Benn Amendment and thus will try and block a deal to the last

It seems that we will have a game of cat and mouse until the bitter end.

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Basilpots · 16/09/2019 18:10

Is he genuinely trying or just shifting the narrative to blame the EU ?

prettybird · 16/09/2019 18:12

BJ-Cummings still lying even though this lie has been pointed out: repeating the lie that Parliament has only lost "4 or 5 days" due to the prorogation (even if you accept that a) that the MPs may have reduced the recess and b) that other Parliamentary business goes on during recess but can't during prorogation) but he brought it forward so that 8 or 9 days have been lost Angry

Songsofexperience · 16/09/2019 18:13

Of course he's not trying.

Basilpots · 16/09/2019 18:14

He doesn’t seem to be able to brazen out the hostility quite like Trump can .

ListeningQuietly · 16/09/2019 18:15

Swearing : Everywhere in the world swears in English.
Its one of the wonderful bits of soft power
that a Brit can say "Oh Shit" anywhere in the world and the people around them will understand.

flouncyfanny · 16/09/2019 18:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BigSexyCrimeUnit · 16/09/2019 18:22

@Basilpots you're absolutely right. Trump is a narcissist in that he is able to 'rationalise' criticism and hostility towards him in his own head so that he isn't as affected by it much. Johnson, on the other hand, seems to be hurt and surprised by the fact people don't love him. He seems to be someone who has been thoroughly spoilt and has cruised through life doing what he wants and neutralising any fallout by charm and bluster or removing himself from the situation. This is not a strategy that works well in an election campaign when people are so angry. Perhaps Theresa May was right in her oft-criticised decision not to meet the general public much during the 2017 election after all.

Outsomnia · 16/09/2019 18:24

Anything can happen now. Just look at what has happened so far with few repercussions that I can see....

Proroguing. Tick
Sacking/removing whip from many stalwarts in the Tory Party, tick.
Lies and more lies, tick.
An adviser who appears to be a nihilistic evil individual, but it still there, tick.

Oh I could go on, but it strikes me that so many shocking things have happened up to now, and little or no reaction that I can see.

What's next? Does it matter at all, since a lot of nefarious things have happened already, and we are still just nodding our heads.

Peregrina · 16/09/2019 18:25

help the PM with the British electorate rather than hinder him

Help them with some of the British, or should that be English electorate? Not those of us who have gone on demonstrations or signed petitions. Not all of Scotland and N I and probably now, not all of Wales.

placemats · 16/09/2019 18:27

I prefer Scheisse. Always have. Et, j'dore merde

flouncyfanny · 16/09/2019 18:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

boldlygoingsomewhere · 16/09/2019 18:30

I’m rather fond of ‘godverdomme’.

Currently wishing I could do a Rip van winkle and fall asleep for a long time and hopefully wake up when this clusterfuck is a dim and distant memory.

Motheroffourdragons · 16/09/2019 18:32

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

placemats · 16/09/2019 18:36

flouncy

I'm not sure I adore the smell of shit, but each to their own, as Johnson would no doubt say.

placemats · 16/09/2019 18:37

I mean, Johnson could always spread a little bit of talc on it. Wink

mummmy2017 · 16/09/2019 18:40
placemats · 16/09/2019 18:48

I can't hear a word of what Ashdown has to say. mummy2017 You do him a disservice by posting that video.

Did Johnson attend his memorial?

I think not!

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-49647560

Alsohuman · 16/09/2019 18:52

His excuse for bottling the press conference is “it wouldn’t be fair to Bettel”, strangely it didn’t seem to be a problem for him.

mummmy2017 · 16/09/2019 18:53

Said on the night of the vote .
I knew him and he would dispise Parliament for this last month. He loved fair play, and your word being your bond, even if you lose.

AutumnCrow · 16/09/2019 18:57

Even if you lie?

smilethoyourheartisbreaking · 16/09/2019 18:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Tanith · 16/09/2019 19:00

I wonder if Boris' ism will be shitism?

BJism?

RedToothBrush · 16/09/2019 19:01

NERD ALERT

Anyone who wants to be completely confused by constitutional law tomorrow:

UK Supreme Court@UKSupremeCourt
A reminder that the Brexit-related judicial review cases which are taking place at the UK Supreme Court tomorrow, can be viewed live via our website. More information about the case and how to watch is available here:

www.supremecourt.uk/brexit/index.html

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placemats · 16/09/2019 19:02

He literally shat himself before setting of for the meeting and threw talc around the room would be a more likely scenario.

But what do I know?

BigSexyCrimeUnit · 16/09/2019 19:04

He loved fair play, and your word being your bond, even if you lose.

@mummmy2017 Except when he lied to his wife by having an affair with his secretary of course