The Brexit Arms

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47 days to go.....

Deal, no deal or delay...???

Remainers are circling the wagons ready for their last stand....

Stand fast Brexit backers and hold the line!!

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Taking other people's rights away is not a good look.

It's not, you're correct.

Democracy is rooted in losers consent & majority rule.

To ignore, subvert or seek to undermine democracy is to remove a basic tenet of our freedom.

Refusing to enact a democratic mandate is a terrible look.

Refusal to throw the UK in to the disaster of a no deal exit is the correct and democratic thing to do.

After 3 and a half years do you honestly think you’re going to change the other sides view?

👏👏👏

(Not a sarcastic clap!! A genuine agreement!)

Refusal to throw the UK in to the disaster of a no deal exit is the correct and democratic thing to do

No deal has to be kept on the table otherwise you are certain to end up with a bad deal. Once EU knows that UK will not leave without a deal it is easy for EU to make outrageous demands such as;

Backstop is permanent regardless of any technology solutions that might appear in the future.

All immigrants and refugees from all other Countries fleeing across EU must be housed in the UK.

UK must surrender the rebate negotiated by Mrs Thatcher.

Etc.,............

dusty you were going on about a one line bill to amend the FTPA would be simple. Obviously it is not, otherwise Johnson would have gone for that as it only requires a simple majority.

I only pointed out that nobody trusts that date in the bill to be set in stone as such a bill would be amendable. Which it is. I didn’t at any point say it could be amended after RA (you’ve drawn that conclusion up all by yourself).

And there is absolutely no reason for the Opposition to agree to a GE on Johnson’s timetable to get Johnson out of his hole.

Changing views - well not from this thread (and most threads) but it's quite important to clarify the nonsense being spouted.

Also there is NO majority now in the country for Leave (see how edication on circs can change opinion) and bollocks all esp for a no deal leave, despite the lies from Liar-in-Chief.

Once EU knows that UK will not leave without a deal it is easy for EU to make outrageous demands such as;

They already know it’s bluster because we’ve failed to leave on the 2 occasions we could already have done so

Backstop is permanent regardless of any technology solutions that might appear in the future.

Why would that matter even if it were true? If we had an operating technological solution the backstop would never come into play anyway?

All immigrants and refugees from all other Countries fleeing across EU must be housed in the UK.

Yes, because that’s exactly what they’d say isn’t it? 🤔

UK must surrender the rebate negotiated by Mrs Thatcher.

Why would we expect to continue to get a rebate from a club we’ve left?

Wouldn't it be funny if the EU demand loads of Money from the Irish for their Budget and so they decide to leave.

Not going to happen.

Continuity - you are attempting to rewrite history I'm afraid.

I said it would be simple because it would.
Not for BJ, but for the opposition who keep whining about 'not calling for GE because can't trust BJ on date'.

You said 'but the date is amendable by BJ!' and I repeatedly pointed out that he cannot sneakily change the date because he doesn't have the numbers (in either house), and once the bill is passed it is unamendable.
Ergo, for the opposition alliance it is a simple & straightforward route to a GE with a date fixed in law.

Even after I kept saying 'after the bill has passed it is not amendable', you kept blethering on about reading what some bloke said.

And there is absolutely no reason for the Opposition to agree to a GE on Johnson’s timetable to get Johnson out of his hole.

If the opposition MPs truly think BJ is untrustworthy, a liar, no mandate, unelected, not fit to be PM etc etc blah blah blah, then there is surely every reason for them to call a GE.

I agree that there is no point trying to change Leavers' minds but there is a point to repeatedly reminding them that the whole country is not behind them.

I agree that there is no point trying to change Leavers' minds but there is a point to repeatedly reminding them that the whole country is not behind them

A binary choice only requires one more vote than the other option to be binding. In a two horse race first past the post wins. That the second horse was 1mm or 1km behind is irrelevant.

If the opposition MPs truly think BJ is untrustworthy, a liar, no mandate, unelected, not fit to be PM etc etc blah blah blah, then there is surely every reason for them to call a GE

Correct.

Labour/LibDems don't want an election as they know they will lose.

Labour's swing between leave remain has cost them at the polls. LibDem leader Jo Swinson stated that if there was another leave vote she would ignore. That will cost them too.

So that leave a coalition between BP and Cons.

I agree that there is no point trying to change Leavers' minds but there is a point to repeatedly reminding them that the whole country is not behind them.

And what is that point? It’s not like they don’t already know that?

FFS, at no point did I say a notwithstanding bill could be amended after it had gone through both houses and/or received RA. I said the Government didn’t go for that option because it could be amended - ie, Government presents bill with date and amendments to that date can be tabled.

If the opposition MPs truly think BJ is untrustworthy, a liar, no mandate, unelected, not fit to be PM etc etc blah blah blah, then there is surely every reason for them to call a GE

Opposition will go for a GE when they are best placed to win a majority. Polling indicates that’s after 31st October.

To be honest, this is the chance for people to peek outside their echo chamber. If we stop expressing our opinions, here or anywhere else, because we fear debate, we become perfect lambs. I’d rather have a debate that goes nowhere in terms of changing other people ideas, than have no confidence or freedom to express my views

I don't live in Kent. I live in one of the most deprived coastal towns in the country. Our high street is almost gone including the main post office even the betting shops are closing. Jobs are few and far between unless you want to be a carer on minimum, zero contract hours. We will be last in line for petrol as will other deprived areas.
£4 may not be a lot of money to some to others its the difference as to whether the family eats for a day ( or 2) and being we are the fifth largest economy in the world ( or were) we have food banks. If the price if food goes up or the slightest shortage of food people will stop donating to them. What then? That extra £4 will tip more working families to having to use those food banks. But heyho Kent will have uncluttered roads and will be fine. Sod anyone else.

Johnson, through his entitled arse, has boxed himself into a tight little corner. He is yet to understand the world doesn't operate automatically in his favour at all times.

Through his tactical genius, he can stay right there until the HoC decides otherwise.

FFS, at no point did I say a notwithstanding bill could be amended after it had gone through both houses and/or received RA

I repeatedly said 'after it has passed it is not amendable'

You just kept on telling me to look up what some bloke said about it being amendable after I had explicitly said after it had passed.

Please don't @ me anymore on this, it is getting boring.

A one line bill with date is entirely achievable & very simple for opposition parties
BJ cannot change the date after it has been passed and he does not have the numbers in either house to do so as it is going through the stages.

Opposition will go for a GE when they are best placed to win a majority. Polling indicates that’s after 31st October.

So then they need to stop screeching about BJ needing to go if they're not prepared to actually do anything about it.

Polling indicates that’s after 31st October

It gets worse. So opinion polls are now prospective?

he can stay right there until the HoC decides otherwise.

Because the toxic Parliament are just pretending to be serious politicians now & are fully immersed in party politicking

This is what people are sick & tired of

Politicians playing stupid games instead of doing their fucking job

Err..., politicians doing their job - I don't think any of them see it as a game.

"toxic Parliament" Another mindless leavers phrase you've been conditioned to spout. Bingo.

Mystery all parties do their own private polling - is this a surprise to you?

"And what is that point? It’s not like they don’t already know that?"
But that's just it. They talk about "The Will of the People ". And neither they nor anyone opposed to them can claim it.

Opposition will go for a GE when they are best placed to win a majority.

Who is the "Opposition" in this thinking. The issue is that the "Opposition" are only united in opposing Brexit. Therefore none of them can win a majority or even cobble together a workable coalition.

The LibDems are United in wanting Revoke and Remain and also in hating Corbyn more than they hate Boris.

The Labour Party cannot even agree on whether they want any Brexit or what sort of Remain vs Remain peoples' vote they want. Half of them also want to dump Corbyn and most of the pledges they just agreed at Conference.

Rory the Tory, Churchill's grandson and the ex-cabinet rebels are still bleating on about "compromising" by passing the WA - in their heads that gets them the laurels for delivering Brexit and saving the Tory Party

The SNP are playing a blinder imo. Joanna got all the credit for upholding the UK Constitution via the Scottish Courts yesterday. They are now aiming square at the rump of Labour and LibDem support left in Scotland by calling for a VoNC and a GE. (nobody ask how they will wield such power once Scotland is Independent - ssh

Remain Tories and Tom Watson Labour wing seem to be dreaming of a Conservative minority propped up by LibDems demanding Revoke. The backlash were that to happen doesn't really bear thinking about.

Err..., politicians doing their job - I don't think any of them see it as a game.

😂 because keeping BJ & his minority govt in power whilst endlessly bleating and screeching about how awful and untrustworthy and incompetent and without mandate etc etc etc etc etc blah blah fucking blah yet refusing to use the tools available to depose them is not playing a game at all....
KK then....

'toxic Parliament" Another mindless leavers phrase you've been conditioned to spout. Bingo.

Do you think this current Parliament is totes amaze & above reproach then?!

A bunch of charlatans drunk on the power of holding a zombie govt in place for no good reason - crowing about 'humiliation' & it being 'paralysed' etc yet refusing repeatedly to actually do anything about it.

I think that is toxic, unproductive, and unacceptable.

Being 'conditioned' to not accept shit is something I'm ok with tbh