The Brexit Arms

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47 days to go.....

Deal, no deal or delay...???

Remainers are circling the wagons ready for their last stand....

Stand fast Brexit backers and hold the line!!

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The pension arguments are so incoherent that I can only assume that alcohol is involved.

Re Britons not taking jobs frequently done by EU citizens:

EU immigrants especially from the EU8 are typically relatively young and therefore less likely to have caring responsibilities (children or elderly parents). As immigrants they are likely to be more mobile for job purposes, at least until they have put down roots in the U.K. All this means that they are more willing (than native Britons) to go where the jobs are.

None of this necessarily means Britons are work shy (some are, some aren't, just like any group of people).

None of this necessarily means Britons are work shy (some are, some aren't, just like any group of people).
But what it does mean is that if the supply of labour is reduced, those industries will have serious readjustment problems.

"Protection of single market requires a border."
I know. And I risk Bear ranting at me but a customs border in the Irish sea would do it.

bellini I can’t really be arsed to rant at you because it doesn’t make any difference.

You continue to act like that’s the only solution and no one’s thought of it before.

Yes, it’s something that ‘could’ happen but so ‘could’ a multitude of other things

You might think it’s a magic bullet but it’s really not.

Unfortunately it looks like the EU have already rejected the proposals Boris has put forward to resolve the Backstop. No idea whether his ideas were realistic - probably not from what we have seen so far from him

What proposals were they?

Proposals

The EU must be so pissed off with this.

The proposals were meaningless.

The whole reason we need a backstop is for if (when) we fail to have a solution after the transition period.

Why on earth would anyone think saying ‘we’ll sort the detail during the translation period’ constitutes a new proposal thus removing the need for a backstop?

I fully agree that not all UK citizens are workshy and I apologise if I suggested that was the case.

Things are, of course, far more complex than that. Temporary contracts, how far the income earned will go in a worker's home country, how mobile people are and whether seasonal jobs are seen as stopgap solutions en route to something else or as the only option for a whole professional lifetime are all factors, amongst others.

EU citizens are not necessarily "taking jobs" from UK citizens, as shown, for instance, by the pyramidal structure of percentages of EU citizens working as waiters/waitresses Vs percentages working in catering management - that was my point, which I belaboured in the face of zero evidence, argumentative retorts and randomly juxtaposed, poorly evidenced comments about taxes, gravy trains, EU plots to block Brexit and other tired tropes.

I was also unduly irritated by the term "immigration invasion", which feeds into a number of violently xenophobic narratives that I find particularly insidious.

More deliberate misrepresentation 🤷‍♀️

I was also unduly irritated by the term "immigration invasion", which feeds into a number of violently xenophobic narratives that I find particularly insidious.
YANBU. This sort of shit is straight out of the Katie Hopkins playbook. Disgusting.

And I risk Bear ranting at me but a customs border in the Irish sea would do it

Not convinced as both DUP and ERG have explained why it does not.

I was also unduly irritated by the term "immigration invasion", which feeds into a number of violently xenophobic narratives that I find particularly insidious

It started in UK under the Blair government. Labour acknowledged long time ago it was a mistake. Similar happened in other Western European countries. They thought cheaper labour would help them avoid being wiped out by China and India. Did not work out.

Morning all how us the war of attrition going 😂 on the leavers 'safe space chat thread' 😂😂.

In interesting mystery, I didn't realise that immigration had badly affected other eu nations like the UK?.
And yes it's been widely accepted that it was too much and we were unprepared.

No one has issues with immigration, its how much we need and can accept that's the issue.

Thing is, in your "safe space ", you will need to change your usernames to fake numbers because we all know them.

yes it's been widely accepted that it was too much and we were unprepared

There was a social fund to assist communities most directly affected, the Cons scrapped it in 2010.

No one has issues with immigration, its how much we need and can accept that's the issue

No one??? thats a lie for a start!
As the vast majority of EU citizens got work, then its safe to assume we need them here, esp as unemployment rates are so low.

If you want a "safe space" for leavers, then ask MNs to set one up for you, didn't realise you were such a snowflake lol!

Why on earth would a special fund need to be created to support communities most impacted by immigration.

How utterly absurd.

I don't think it's 'safe' to assume anything at all jas.

The safe space comment was a tongue in cheek joke. 🙄.
For a light hearted leavers chat thread it gets pretty heavy in this pub sometimes.... The usual pub bores I guess.

Then if you don't like people commenting on your pub banter or (horror of horrors) asking questions, I'm sure you can find a Facebook group that does it for you. My local community Facebook group is full of them and I'm sure there are other Facebook special groups where you don't get people asking any questions. Other than "is No Deal brilliant or wot?". I don't go on them because I am afraid of people knowing my name. What a world we live in.

Maybe your 'light hearted Leavers pub chat' gets heavy because the consequences of leaving are pretty heavy?

Miljah your 95% white NHS team of 3-4 years ago is unusual to the point of being completely unbelievable ime? Your evident prejudice against non-EU NHS staff is also highly unusual / exceptional / objectionable within the UK population?

Now my team is 50% non British, non EU trained. The EU staff are gone. The imported Jamaicans' training is mediocre to OK; the Nigerians have evidently bought their 'qualifications

Absolutely awful thing to say about the many Jamaican & Nigerian NHS staff, many of whom have been there since the very start of the NHS.

Call other people racist while your own racism is clearly on show 🤔

On rental income and pensions. Tax is not the issue. The UK working economy funds pensions in payment and rent paid by the workforce to their landlords. Even if this money is taxed if it is spent by UK pensioners in Spain then it is the UK workforce supporting the Spanish economy.

A very long read with somewhat gloomy conclusions which even I am not cynical enough about the EU to endorse. However gives a good cooks tour of the history of the UK and its relationships with Ireland and mainland EU and the issues with the Backstop wherever you put it.

www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/09/backdoor-backstop-ireland-s-shifting-relationship-britain-and-europe