Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westministenders: Parliament Perogies pushing Rats in the Corner

984 replies

RedToothBrush · 09/09/2019 19:35

One Opposition MP has just talked in parliament about how little the public understand what Preroguation is and what it meant. She described how one constituent thought it was about perogies.

The Benn Bill is now law and compels Johnson to ask for an extension if we have no deal.

Something that he has said he will die in a ditch to avoid and has suggested he would break the law.

But his options are hugely limited - if he refuses to do so and we no deal accidentally now, he is potentially personally liable for loses. He has no majority and the defeats keep on coming as a result.

Everything coming out now is the behaviour of a man with his back to the wall. The only thing he can do is frame everything as a people v the establishment and hope he survived until a GE. This is a dangerous time - he is now a rat in the corner with nothing to lose.

After Rudd's resignation, not much has got better for Johnson. Several other Tory MPs have signalled they won't stand again. This might mean they decide to rebel as they have nothing to lose. Lord Wellington, who has Tory written through him like a stick of rock, has also resigned the party. Attorney General Buckland hasn't resigned but has made threatening noises if the rule of law is broken.

Proroguation now does stack pressure on Johnson. He has to be the one to make moves and that is going to be difficult for him. However it also gives him time to say and do something without the scrutiny of parliament who have been blowing his arguments and legal assertions to bits with such ease.

Today he has visited Dublin where he stood next to Leo Varadkar who was less than polite nor even particularly diplomatic. The discomfort on Johnson's face and in his body language was very obvious. Varadkar in no uncertain terms said: ""if there is no deal, it will cause disruption for British and Irish people alike", adding "there's no such thing as a clean break, or just getting it done" and that he'd recieved no workable plan.

Tonight are two emergency debates. The first has just concluded about the government's lack of willingness to release documents relating to proroguation and operation yellowhammer.

Its been reported that ministers and civil servants have used private communications to conduct government ministers and this has caused huge concerns and Grieve wants to compel the government to release them. The government have responded saying this is an invasion of privacy. This has raised the accusation that Dominic Cummings personally has rifled through the phone messages of the former treasury communications officer as he sacked her and number 10 were not particularly concerned about her privacy then.

At the same time as the debate the government were briefing the press that they would refuse to comply with demands to release information. Grieve then made the point this was leading to the complete breakdown in trust in government.

David Allen Green said that if the government were to do this we could well be headed into a full blown constitutional crisis. This is the first time he's said he thinks we are actually at this stage.

Grieve was supported by the house by 311 votes to 302 votes ordering the government to release the documents.

The second debate is about the Rule of Law and the government's obligation to obey the Rule of Law.

Yet to come tonight is another vote about an early General Election before parliament pergoies, possibly in the early hours.

In other news John Bercow has decided to stand down at the next election or on the 31st October, which ever is sooner. There are rumours he was about to be deselected by his local conservative association and against convention would have to fight an election to win back his seat. He therefore was merely taking action before he was pushed. This might also be an action to protect parliament from the election of a new speaker after another election, fearing that there might be a hard right takeover which could threaten parliamentary soverignity.

Also this:
Declan Lawn @DecLawn
ERG stalwart Andrew Bridgen on @BBCPM saying the only way he could see a NI only backstop being acceptable is if it was put to an NI-only referendum. Fascinating.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
32
Icantreachthepretzels · 10/09/2019 23:02

Oh I have no idea about the technical possibility Mother I'll take your word for that. I;'e never been to Scotland never mind ... the place which shall remain nameless. - I'm objecting on grounds of the earworm.

pumkinspicetime · 10/09/2019 23:04

Sorry mother BJ has removed all of my good humor regarding bridges.
I guess people could look at the beavers?

Peregrina · 10/09/2019 23:05

I just want to ask the Lib Dems or Labour if they are worried about letting a Conservative / BXP win because they have split the anti No Deal vote.

Yes, I am pretty sure that they are aware of this, and you will find that campaigning in some seats gets much more effort than others do. At the same time of course, there is the hope that the BXP/Tory/Independent Tory vote is split, but this still is a bit of an unknown.

PerkingFaintly · 10/09/2019 23:06

Guys look - I know you voted to leave, here is the best deal we can do. Some of you might not be happy with it, so we will put it back to the people. If you still want to leave on this basis we will trigger a50 and get on with it.

This is a version of what I've thought should have happened all along. Ie:

• Confirmatory referendum on the details of possible Leave options, once they'd been hashed out.

• Remain on the ballot, to prevent the sort of "my way or the highway" shit we've seen – and also because once details became clearer some people might change their position.

• Single Transferrable Vote, so as not to split the Leave vote against Remain. People might vote for two different Leave options, or put one Leave option as their first choice and choose Remain as their second, or vote Remain as their first and put a specific Leave option as their second choice.

Oddly, much as I despise him which is very much indeed I can envisage Tony Blair pulling that one off. It would have made people who voted Leave feel listened to, and made them (and people who voted Remain) genuinely empowered while not being shackled to a decision made blind.

And it would mean there was a majority under STV for whichever option we eventually followed — as opposed to now where the outcome is almost certain NOT to have been what any majority voted for. (Simply because Leave barely got over 50%, and the Leave vote encompassed multiple options – so each option will almost certainly have less than 50%.)

Sadly a bit too late now to do this now, I think.

prettybird · 10/09/2019 23:07

Re Cummings' "plan" to illegally use gov.uk usage to target party political messages: I always take a childish pleasure in commenting on every Brexit related page that I visit that no, I didn't find the information useful/helpful/it didn't answer my question Wink

But I don't give my email address when it then asks for more detailed feedback.

I probably already have my card marked as a dangerous subversive Grin

Motheroffourdragons · 10/09/2019 23:08

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

chomalungma · 10/09/2019 23:09

obably already have my card marked as a dangerous subversive

Any look at my twitter feed tells people enough about me. I am probably not allowed in the US because I have been a bit rude about Trump.

Come the revolution, I think my cards are marked......

Icantreachthepretzels · 10/09/2019 23:10

No need to apologise Mother ... I'm still a bit shook that the Mull of Kintyre is a real place! Grin no I knew that really - I think Confused

Outsomnia · 10/09/2019 23:10

Border in Irish Sea check

Billions extra to NI, check.

Suspension of the result of Ash for Cash indefinitely, check.

As you were, check.

But if there is any trouble, Direct Rule, check.

Not sure about the SSM and Abortion stuff that will be imposed if the Assembly still refuses to convene, but anyway, more important things are happening today I think.

pumkinspicetime · 10/09/2019 23:11

Single Transferrable Vote, so as not to split the Leave vote against Remain. People might vote for two different Leave options, or put one Leave option as their first choice and choose Remain as their second, or vote Remain as their first and put a specific Leave option as their second choice.

I was thinking this was probably the most sensible way forward, with remain, soft Brexit and hard Brexit.
You would then probably end up with a compromise which much though I don't want it is probably what should have happened from the start.

Motheroffourdragons · 10/09/2019 23:11

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

chomalungma · 10/09/2019 23:13

I think it should be a scale from 1 - 5.

1 = hard Brexit.
5 = ultra Remain.

People should simply put a cross on the scale about what they want.

We'll probably get a a lot of 3's, coupled with 1 + 5 in equal amounts.

thecatfromjapan · 10/09/2019 23:16

Yet more 'double messaging', 'both sides of the circle' stuff from Team Johnson.

On the one hand, threatening to 'sabotage' the extension request, on the other, this:

Tom Newton Dunn
@tmrwtondunn

Excl: Boris Johnson told Tory rebels he needs them as he’s preparing for “spears in my back” from ERG, in sign he’s shifting to a softer Brexit deal

22:49 10.09.19

cherin · 10/09/2019 23:19

Ive been watching Newsnight, labour proposal has been ripped apart, and I think for a very good reason. It’s unintelligible. You can’t explain it to someone at the doorstep, you can’t put it in a sentence only, it’s just so...convoluted! You do this and then we do that and if the outcome is X then bla bla.
Brexit party slogan: leave now
LD: revoke
Tory party: do or die
Labour: well first we do a GE, then we renegotiate the deal, then we put it to the people but we campaign against it because we want to stay and then

In the meantime, people in Grimsby are falling in love with BJ

I don’t think we’re prepared to see the truth, I’m afraid...let’s hope it’s just a bad selection of interviews on tv, and when people are at the poll with the pencil at hand they behave differently....

thecatfromjapan · 10/09/2019 23:19

I think it's odd that this (Johnson is preparing for a softer Brexit) line is being run in Thd Sun (Tom Newton Dunn is the pol editor & referring to a story running tomorrow, I think),

It makes me wonder if Sun readers are, in fact, quite worried about the economic effects of No Deal & are deemed in need of reassurance?

Icantreachthepretzels · 10/09/2019 23:20

What's ultra remain? the status quo - or bringing in the euro and joining the schengen zone?

Motheroffourdragons · 10/09/2019 23:21

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

thecatfromjapan · 10/09/2019 23:22

cherin Yes. It's as though something extraordinary has happened to a. People's attention span b. The spaces in which communication takes place.

It's not, actually, a massively complicated message - and yet ...

🤷‍♀️

prettybird · 10/09/2019 23:23

I posted on the wrong Wesminstenders thread during Alan Duncan's speech, saying something along the lines that it sounded like he was arguing in favour of PR. That was the logical extension of his premise that the days of binary politics/parties were in the past.

cherin · 10/09/2019 23:24

How much do they pay to be an acrobatic lorry jumper? Do they give you a choice for colour for the cast when you’ve broken both legs(blue/red depending on your party affiliation?) :-)

chomalungma · 10/09/2019 23:25

well first we do a GE, then we renegotiate the deal, then we put it to the people but we campaign against it because we want to stay and then

Or:
We negotiate a good deal and offer the people a choice between leaving with a deal or Remaining.

It's not a snappy soundbite...and the current climate is like Trump 'Build the wall'. or 'Take back control'.

How about 'Give you the choice?'

thecatfromjapan · 10/09/2019 23:27

That's nice, Chomalungma.

thecatfromjapan · 10/09/2019 23:28

#TimeforaChoice

chomalungma · 10/09/2019 23:29

That's nice, Chomalungma

I've learnt from Trump and Cummings.

A simple, repeatable phrase. Gets into the subconscious.
Because people have low attention spans.
Labour - if you are reading this, you can have that on me...