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Brexit

Westministenders: Parliament Perogies pushing Rats in the Corner

984 replies

RedToothBrush · 09/09/2019 19:35

One Opposition MP has just talked in parliament about how little the public understand what Preroguation is and what it meant. She described how one constituent thought it was about perogies.

The Benn Bill is now law and compels Johnson to ask for an extension if we have no deal.

Something that he has said he will die in a ditch to avoid and has suggested he would break the law.

But his options are hugely limited - if he refuses to do so and we no deal accidentally now, he is potentially personally liable for loses. He has no majority and the defeats keep on coming as a result.

Everything coming out now is the behaviour of a man with his back to the wall. The only thing he can do is frame everything as a people v the establishment and hope he survived until a GE. This is a dangerous time - he is now a rat in the corner with nothing to lose.

After Rudd's resignation, not much has got better for Johnson. Several other Tory MPs have signalled they won't stand again. This might mean they decide to rebel as they have nothing to lose. Lord Wellington, who has Tory written through him like a stick of rock, has also resigned the party. Attorney General Buckland hasn't resigned but has made threatening noises if the rule of law is broken.

Proroguation now does stack pressure on Johnson. He has to be the one to make moves and that is going to be difficult for him. However it also gives him time to say and do something without the scrutiny of parliament who have been blowing his arguments and legal assertions to bits with such ease.

Today he has visited Dublin where he stood next to Leo Varadkar who was less than polite nor even particularly diplomatic. The discomfort on Johnson's face and in his body language was very obvious. Varadkar in no uncertain terms said: ""if there is no deal, it will cause disruption for British and Irish people alike", adding "there's no such thing as a clean break, or just getting it done" and that he'd recieved no workable plan.

Tonight are two emergency debates. The first has just concluded about the government's lack of willingness to release documents relating to proroguation and operation yellowhammer.

Its been reported that ministers and civil servants have used private communications to conduct government ministers and this has caused huge concerns and Grieve wants to compel the government to release them. The government have responded saying this is an invasion of privacy. This has raised the accusation that Dominic Cummings personally has rifled through the phone messages of the former treasury communications officer as he sacked her and number 10 were not particularly concerned about her privacy then.

At the same time as the debate the government were briefing the press that they would refuse to comply with demands to release information. Grieve then made the point this was leading to the complete breakdown in trust in government.

David Allen Green said that if the government were to do this we could well be headed into a full blown constitutional crisis. This is the first time he's said he thinks we are actually at this stage.

Grieve was supported by the house by 311 votes to 302 votes ordering the government to release the documents.

The second debate is about the Rule of Law and the government's obligation to obey the Rule of Law.

Yet to come tonight is another vote about an early General Election before parliament pergoies, possibly in the early hours.

In other news John Bercow has decided to stand down at the next election or on the 31st October, which ever is sooner. There are rumours he was about to be deselected by his local conservative association and against convention would have to fight an election to win back his seat. He therefore was merely taking action before he was pushed. This might also be an action to protect parliament from the election of a new speaker after another election, fearing that there might be a hard right takeover which could threaten parliamentary soverignity.

Also this:
Declan Lawn @DecLawn
ERG stalwart Andrew Bridgen on @BBCPM saying the only way he could see a NI only backstop being acceptable is if it was put to an NI-only referendum. Fascinating.

OP posts:
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OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 10/09/2019 13:35

I'm not 100% sure of his credentials, should have made that clear. But the entire thing wouldn't surprise me.

Personally I think yellowhammer if it gets out will turn the tide, but I suspect more back towards a softer brexit than remain.

PerkingFaintly · 10/09/2019 13:38

BigChocFrenzy, just seen your @ me at 12:56:00.

Is that a typo, or have I missed a cryptic note! Do we meet on the blasted Heath at midnight?

Meanwhile, I had ONE JOB to do today, bid on EBay, and I've cocked it up because I was so glued to these threads.Blush

Peregrina · 10/09/2019 13:38

But wouldn't it be terrible if there were a pissed-off civil servant somewhere with a photocopier handy....?

As Sarah Tisdall with the Belgrano stuff - you have to risk a prison sentence. Still technology has moved on, and now a USB stick is your friend, copy onto that and slip to a friendly journalist.

Peregrina · 10/09/2019 13:41

but I suspect more back towards a softer brexit than remain.

I think many would go along with that. GFA protected, JIT supply lines and hence medicines and food supplies not disrupted.

DGRossetti · 10/09/2019 13:43

As Sarah Tisdall with the Belgrano stuff - you have to risk a prison sentence.

Wasn't that Clive Ponting ? Who was found not guilty (perverse verdict/jury nullification). Mrs.T went ballistic, and that's why the OSA was rewritten.

MockersthefeMANist · 10/09/2019 13:45

Tisdall was done for theft of a piece of govt photocopeir paper.

Ponting got off. He was bang to rights, but the jury would not convict.

bellinisurge · 10/09/2019 13:45

Only a matter of time before they come out.
No, I haven't seen them before you ask😂

TheABC · 10/09/2019 13:47

Surely, Yellowhammer is just for contingencies as Johnson will get us a fabulous Deal?

It says a lot that they are afraid to publish. It's going to overshadow conference season for a start.

Peregrina · 10/09/2019 13:47

Yep, it may have been Ponting with the Belgrano. Was Tisdall Cruise missiles? Very typically, a young woman in a junior post was made a scapegoat, but a fast stream man in a senior position managed to get off.

Either way, you have to risk a prison sentence, which some people, as with the Poll Tax riots, are prepared to do.

Peregrina · 10/09/2019 13:49

If a journalist does get hold of the full Yellowhammer stuff and does publish, doesn't it nullify any complaint the Government might make, given that they are now legally required to publish them?

CurlyWurlyTwirly · 10/09/2019 13:55

I live in France and they’re definitely preparing for the UK to leave.

Applying for a carte de séjour

Brits in Europe are going to be 3rd country nationals. It just struck home that we’re no longer going to be Europeans and actually; I find that very upsetting.

DGRossetti · 10/09/2019 13:57

The Ponting case is fascinating, as it reinforces Lord Devlins description of a jury as a "little parliament" and our final bastion against tyranny.

I don't give two shits what the law is, I'll judge on my own conscience first and damn the torpedoes.

Alsohuman · 10/09/2019 13:58

According to Twitter, Gove said in cabinet this morning that if the Yellowhammer documents come to light, Brexit’s over.

mobile.twitter.com/OGMurphy1

Hazardtired · 10/09/2019 14:01

Pleasssssse can we absorb that medications are at risk from more than a failure in the just in time system?

And ffs caution over the remainer attitude repackaged as compromise attitude. It didn't work in the remain campaign and it wont work now. Once again it's tone death and ironically does the opposite of reaching out across the divide because it's insidiously divisive due to its tone.

But wtf do i know perhaps that's the point, lets find middle ground by everyone agreeing we should be divided.

GirlsBlouse17 · 10/09/2019 14:02

Brits in Europe are going to be 3rd country nationals. It just struck home that we’re no longer going to be Europeans and actually; I find that very upsetting

We will still be Europeans. We just won't be in the EU

DGRossetti · 10/09/2019 14:07

According to Twitter, Gove said in cabinet this morning that if the Yellowhammer documents come to light, Brexit’s over.

That being the case, then it could be Boris winning ticket. Leak documents, see Brexit evaporate, and blame some hapless lackey who will be cleared after the appropriate enquiry by which time it will be "too late". Boris then gets to ride in on a horse waving his "lance of truth" and "shield of reform" and gets the history-book entry he clearly feels he's worthy of.

...is one possibility.

The other is that the Yellowhammer "documents" (and I'll note here I remain doubtful about the plural) are actually Mrs. Goves monthly shopping list in a formal font with loads of abbreviations everywhere. What with previous examples of government "planning".

NoWordForFluffy · 10/09/2019 14:07

BCF, I said almost exactly what you said about passing the WA and moving forwards the other day. I totally agree with you. It utterly pours water onto the leave campaigning if we've already left. Parties can battle on the future relationship (whether that's fast track rejoin, Norway ++ or whatever).

TheMShip · 10/09/2019 14:10

Hazard I really like the auto correct to tone death - it's actually very evocative.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by caution over the remainer attitude repackaged as compromise attitude. I voted remain, I still think any form of Brexit is a bad deal for the UK, but I'm coming around to the view that a soft Brexit is the only option that has any chance of not deepening the authoritarian-liberal divide. I suspect it isn't a realistic option, though.

Peregrina · 10/09/2019 14:12

I think that a soft Brexit is the one that a majority in the UK would now accept. But Johnson is still beholden to Cummings and the ERG so it's not an option.

BirdandSparrow · 10/09/2019 14:12

www.lamoncloa.gob.es/lang/en/brexit/howtoprepare/Paginas/190108residence.aspx?fbclid=IwAR1SAdBBxFRCN3MQVnrab6e9-gpCAhjx5Cq7bllLWOTknJlx3Vd6Gkvx100

Spain is planning too. But apparently meeting again this week to discuss whether to amend their current contingency plan.

I have an Irish passport but my Spanish ID says British and, although I could change it, I've also applied for Spanish nationality and don't want to mess that up by having different ID to what I applied with. Buuuuut, I'm stuck in the 3-4 year long backlog of applications.

DGRossetti · 10/09/2019 14:14

I think that a soft Brexit is the one that a majority in the UK would now accept. But Johnson is still beholden to Cummings and the ERG so it's not an option.

Doesn't the Benn amendment render that irrelevant ?

BigChocFrenzy · 10/09/2019 14:15

"Where's wikileaks when you need them ?"

DG Think who visited Assange in the Ecuadorian Embassy

Think who obtained the Clinton leaks from the Russia cyberspies at a very critical time, late in the 2016 presidential election

A surprising number of those who appeared "anti-establishment" now seem to have come out to help the far right Hmm
e.g. look at some Brexit Party candidates

imo, it's a mixture of left & right extremists having a lot in common, plus some on the far left being longtime Russian stooges,
who dutifully switched from far left to far right when Putin came in

It also explains some of those "Lexiters" who'll support the Tories over Brexit

BigChocFrenzy · 10/09/2019 14:17

PerkingFaintly Apologies Blush 💐
My iPad went nuts with @ing during lunch and I must have missed a corrtion

prettybird · 10/09/2019 14:17

Museumofham - re the over prescribing "story", I said exactly the same thing to dh this morning. The timing just seems a little too convenient Hmm - not just because of potential likely shortages but also with an underfunded NHS. Hmm

BigChocFrenzy · 10/09/2019 14:24

"And ffs caution over the remainer attitude repackaged as compromise attitude.
It didn't work in the remain campaign and it wont work now.
Once again it's tone death and ironically does the opposite of reaching out across the divide because it's insidiously divisive due to its tone."

^^ This

Remainers saying everyone should join us and compromise to stop fascism ....
.... by refusing anything except a PV
are indeed tone deaf and putting off the moderate Leavers who would otherwise pause and probably join us.

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