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Brexit

Westministenders: Parliament Perogies pushing Rats in the Corner

984 replies

RedToothBrush · 09/09/2019 19:35

One Opposition MP has just talked in parliament about how little the public understand what Preroguation is and what it meant. She described how one constituent thought it was about perogies.

The Benn Bill is now law and compels Johnson to ask for an extension if we have no deal.

Something that he has said he will die in a ditch to avoid and has suggested he would break the law.

But his options are hugely limited - if he refuses to do so and we no deal accidentally now, he is potentially personally liable for loses. He has no majority and the defeats keep on coming as a result.

Everything coming out now is the behaviour of a man with his back to the wall. The only thing he can do is frame everything as a people v the establishment and hope he survived until a GE. This is a dangerous time - he is now a rat in the corner with nothing to lose.

After Rudd's resignation, not much has got better for Johnson. Several other Tory MPs have signalled they won't stand again. This might mean they decide to rebel as they have nothing to lose. Lord Wellington, who has Tory written through him like a stick of rock, has also resigned the party. Attorney General Buckland hasn't resigned but has made threatening noises if the rule of law is broken.

Proroguation now does stack pressure on Johnson. He has to be the one to make moves and that is going to be difficult for him. However it also gives him time to say and do something without the scrutiny of parliament who have been blowing his arguments and legal assertions to bits with such ease.

Today he has visited Dublin where he stood next to Leo Varadkar who was less than polite nor even particularly diplomatic. The discomfort on Johnson's face and in his body language was very obvious. Varadkar in no uncertain terms said: ""if there is no deal, it will cause disruption for British and Irish people alike", adding "there's no such thing as a clean break, or just getting it done" and that he'd recieved no workable plan.

Tonight are two emergency debates. The first has just concluded about the government's lack of willingness to release documents relating to proroguation and operation yellowhammer.

Its been reported that ministers and civil servants have used private communications to conduct government ministers and this has caused huge concerns and Grieve wants to compel the government to release them. The government have responded saying this is an invasion of privacy. This has raised the accusation that Dominic Cummings personally has rifled through the phone messages of the former treasury communications officer as he sacked her and number 10 were not particularly concerned about her privacy then.

At the same time as the debate the government were briefing the press that they would refuse to comply with demands to release information. Grieve then made the point this was leading to the complete breakdown in trust in government.

David Allen Green said that if the government were to do this we could well be headed into a full blown constitutional crisis. This is the first time he's said he thinks we are actually at this stage.

Grieve was supported by the house by 311 votes to 302 votes ordering the government to release the documents.

The second debate is about the Rule of Law and the government's obligation to obey the Rule of Law.

Yet to come tonight is another vote about an early General Election before parliament pergoies, possibly in the early hours.

In other news John Bercow has decided to stand down at the next election or on the 31st October, which ever is sooner. There are rumours he was about to be deselected by his local conservative association and against convention would have to fight an election to win back his seat. He therefore was merely taking action before he was pushed. This might also be an action to protect parliament from the election of a new speaker after another election, fearing that there might be a hard right takeover which could threaten parliamentary soverignity.

Also this:
Declan Lawn @DecLawn
ERG stalwart Andrew Bridgen on @BBCPM saying the only way he could see a NI only backstop being acceptable is if it was put to an NI-only referendum. Fascinating.

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RedToothBrush · 10/09/2019 09:15

So the scuffle around the speakers chair last night isn't great optics. Check out this argument:

Matt Chorley @mattchorley
The state of this. Some of these parliamentarians were the same ones who thought it was an outrage that Rees-Mogg had a lie down last week. All as bad as one another

George Freeman MP @georgefreeman
ICYMI. This is what the Corbynite Labour Party now looks like in Parliament: an angry mob determined to deepen the Brexit crisis for their own ends: to further undermine Parliament & democracy & create the conditions for further unrest & disorder. Mainstream MPs must stand firm.

Matt Chorley @mattchorley
To be fair George, quite a lot of “mainstream MPs” have just been kicked out of your party by the government you’re still part of

George Freeman MP @georgefreeman
To be fair Matt, losing the Whip for voting against your own front bench in a CONFIDENCE vote is not unusual. And No10 have signaled that if they vote for the Gov in October they can return. (And there has been no disorderly mobbing of the Speaker).

Tom Peck @tompeck
Can I very politely ask if you have a view on which “undermines parliament” more. Labour holding up some protest signs, or your government proroguing it at a time of national crisis?

What does MPs arguing, lounging, protesting, brawling and then arguing with journalists who are arguing back look to some parts of the electorate.

Someone standing as anti establish ticket has a lot if material to work with....

OP posts:
Peregrina · 10/09/2019 09:16

Calon lan one of my favourite hymns - it reminds me of my childhood in Wales. I don't actually know the English words.

thecatfromjapan · 10/09/2019 09:19

I agree, Peregrina.

Hazardtired · 10/09/2019 09:21

Hard agree thecatfromjapan

I would consider the WA kinda acceptable if there was a government that's wasn't far right.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 10/09/2019 09:21

I don't actually know the English words.

Me either I had to google for them Grin

thecatfromjapan · 10/09/2019 09:22

You know, one thing that gives me hope is (oddly enough,) Kirstie Allsopp (of Location, Location fame).

She fronted up for Leave after the referendum (I guess as 'the acceptable face of Leave,) and she really doesn't take that line any more.

A lot of people will be like her - whatever they may be saying in polls.
Polls are very confusing things.

Peregrina · 10/09/2019 09:22

I take it that the agreement is to my first post, although Calon Lan is a beautiful hymn. (It should have a circumflex over the a in Lan, or a hat as we called it at school.)

I think their might have been a rendition of Cwm Rhondda, too, plus from the SNP Scots wha hae.

Peregrina · 10/09/2019 09:23

their = there. I can spell, honest.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 10/09/2019 09:25

I think their might have been a rendition of Cwm Rhondda

Dont know that one because I'm a Gog

thecatfromjapan · 10/09/2019 09:30

I'm so, so angry about the Johnson bung to Conservative marginals.

My birth-City is as left-behind as you could dream of.

Not on the list.

It's disgusting Johnson is clawing money from schools, from SEND, from the NHS, from the police(while he sets the example that law-breaking is just fine), to buy votes.

I'm utterly furious.

#Pleaseleavemytown

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 10/09/2019 09:31

My Great Uncle once marched out of a church in England because they played an alternative tune for Cwm Rhondda / Guide Me Oh Thou Great Redeemer

Peregrina · 10/09/2019 09:33

I'm a Gog

I am too (an honorary one), and thinking about it, I don't think we sang it at school.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 10/09/2019 09:35

I’m from S Wales and you were more likely and I remember Cwm Rhondda more than Calon Lan

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 10/09/2019 09:36

Gah garbled post
More likely to hear CR

Horehound · 10/09/2019 09:38

I just watched the snippet on news at 9 @peregrina and it was actually ian blackford who shook bercows hand first. He stepped up from his seat and reach out to him..

Peregrina · 10/09/2019 09:38

I gather that when Cwm Rhondda is sung in Welsh, it's set to completely different words.

DGRossetti · 10/09/2019 09:39

how many GEs do we need before we stop talking about 'the will of the people'?

Hula hoops, body popping, fidget spinners, top trumps, pokemon go, VW badges, acid house ...

... to continue the theme that no matter what, the Brexit fad is not what it was. Imagine if it were to turn out to be like fusion power ... "just 5 years away ..." ?

You can't boil the electorate of the UK in a toxic stew of ingredients, and expect the results to be the same as when you started.

I wonder what the private polls are telling BXP and Tories about the publics real appetite for Brexit now ? Especially when they start ranking it alongside the more mundane issues like policing, the NHS, infrastructure, housing, education ?

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 10/09/2019 09:43

I think most people are genuinely utterly fed up of Brexit and the politicking on all sides.
It looks like politicians playing party politics when there is so much else to be done.
Most people in this country are not on the extreme ends of the debate.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 10/09/2019 09:43

DGR I've wondered that myself and I've wondered if thats why were seeing this authoritarian drive towards Brexit because they know that public interest and engagement is starting to subside

Peregrina · 10/09/2019 09:43

I just watched the snippet on news at 9 @peregrina and it was actually ian blackford who shook bercows hand first.

Missed that - I think the Commentators said Corbyn. Either way, I hope it's some sort of sign.

Ideally I would like to see the whole system reformed, with a proper PR system. No, we don't need a Referendum on it, just have a working party to look at the options and choose the best. Then with the remodelled HoC, a horseshoe shaped chamber with proper desks for MPs to work at, etc. You can still have the fancy wood panelling - that wasn't the original anyway.

I am doing a course and ought to be studying hard, so it's a bonus that Parliament has been prorogued because I can't get distracted watching it!

Peregrina · 10/09/2019 09:45

£350 million a week for the NHS does not compute with shortages of vital medications. I do think that people can make the connection, except for the die hard leavers.

HesterThrale · 10/09/2019 09:46

cat I agree and hope you’re right.

I honestly think we are very close to a progressive alliance government, with a long extension - and that opens up enormous possibilities, including stability and a change in rhetoric.

I tend to think a short extension is not much better than no extension. It’d be a winter of the same emotion-charged mucking about. We need time to reflect, and to get a better government.

Basilpots · 10/09/2019 09:47

Totally unrelated to the subject of Brexit, and totally related to how thick some people can be, did anyone read about the guy who spaffed £30,000 defending a £100 speeding ticket ?

Brexit in s nutshell. Doggedly pursuing something on a point of principle at great expense both financially and emotionally.

CurlyWurlyTwirly · 10/09/2019 09:48

That other smug Etonian / former useless PM David Cameron is also cashing in on Brexit by publishing his autobiography.
I hope it is boycotted and ends up in some bargain bin for 99p.
He is disgusting.

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 10/09/2019 09:50

Had the absolute delight this morning to be able to say to someone who was very anti a people's vote because the question had been asked already but was also peeved that parliament was stopping a GE now
this question was only asked in 2017 and gave us this parliament, why should it be rerun because the government aren't getting their way
They didn't have a comeback. Other than saying but wouldn't I like the other parties to have more MPs, to which i said not at the expense of selling the country down the pan

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