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Brexit

Westministenders: Parliament Perogies pushing Rats in the Corner

984 replies

RedToothBrush · 09/09/2019 19:35

One Opposition MP has just talked in parliament about how little the public understand what Preroguation is and what it meant. She described how one constituent thought it was about perogies.

The Benn Bill is now law and compels Johnson to ask for an extension if we have no deal.

Something that he has said he will die in a ditch to avoid and has suggested he would break the law.

But his options are hugely limited - if he refuses to do so and we no deal accidentally now, he is potentially personally liable for loses. He has no majority and the defeats keep on coming as a result.

Everything coming out now is the behaviour of a man with his back to the wall. The only thing he can do is frame everything as a people v the establishment and hope he survived until a GE. This is a dangerous time - he is now a rat in the corner with nothing to lose.

After Rudd's resignation, not much has got better for Johnson. Several other Tory MPs have signalled they won't stand again. This might mean they decide to rebel as they have nothing to lose. Lord Wellington, who has Tory written through him like a stick of rock, has also resigned the party. Attorney General Buckland hasn't resigned but has made threatening noises if the rule of law is broken.

Proroguation now does stack pressure on Johnson. He has to be the one to make moves and that is going to be difficult for him. However it also gives him time to say and do something without the scrutiny of parliament who have been blowing his arguments and legal assertions to bits with such ease.

Today he has visited Dublin where he stood next to Leo Varadkar who was less than polite nor even particularly diplomatic. The discomfort on Johnson's face and in his body language was very obvious. Varadkar in no uncertain terms said: ""if there is no deal, it will cause disruption for British and Irish people alike", adding "there's no such thing as a clean break, or just getting it done" and that he'd recieved no workable plan.

Tonight are two emergency debates. The first has just concluded about the government's lack of willingness to release documents relating to proroguation and operation yellowhammer.

Its been reported that ministers and civil servants have used private communications to conduct government ministers and this has caused huge concerns and Grieve wants to compel the government to release them. The government have responded saying this is an invasion of privacy. This has raised the accusation that Dominic Cummings personally has rifled through the phone messages of the former treasury communications officer as he sacked her and number 10 were not particularly concerned about her privacy then.

At the same time as the debate the government were briefing the press that they would refuse to comply with demands to release information. Grieve then made the point this was leading to the complete breakdown in trust in government.

David Allen Green said that if the government were to do this we could well be headed into a full blown constitutional crisis. This is the first time he's said he thinks we are actually at this stage.

Grieve was supported by the house by 311 votes to 302 votes ordering the government to release the documents.

The second debate is about the Rule of Law and the government's obligation to obey the Rule of Law.

Yet to come tonight is another vote about an early General Election before parliament pergoies, possibly in the early hours.

In other news John Bercow has decided to stand down at the next election or on the 31st October, which ever is sooner. There are rumours he was about to be deselected by his local conservative association and against convention would have to fight an election to win back his seat. He therefore was merely taking action before he was pushed. This might also be an action to protect parliament from the election of a new speaker after another election, fearing that there might be a hard right takeover which could threaten parliamentary soverignity.

Also this:
Declan Lawn @DecLawn
ERG stalwart Andrew Bridgen on @BBCPM saying the only way he could see a NI only backstop being acceptable is if it was put to an NI-only referendum. Fascinating.

OP posts:
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BoreOfWhabylon · 10/09/2019 08:21

Singing in this Mail link

Scroll down a bit

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7445963/Scuffles-break-Speakers-chair-amid-attempts-shut-Parliament.html

NeverTalksToStrangers · 10/09/2019 08:24

I had posted on one of these threads about a year ago maybe, but I've been following them this last week (and trying to catch up).

Bercow is a legend. I watched it live last night. Was genuinely expecting him to say worse than flamingo.

From an NI perspective, I can guarantee that a NI-only referendum on a NI only backstop or no deal (as mentioned by someone up thread or on last thread as the only thing the erg might consider) would absolutely result in the backstop being approved. I would almost like to see it happen just to see Arlene's face. Their whole policy of supporting Brexit has really come back to bite them. Which I predicted.

I would also hope/expect a lot of tactical voting on this side of the water for a GE. I live in a sinn Fein stronghold where there is a lot of frustration on the fact that remainers from NI only really have Silvia Hermon to represent us in the HOC due to the SF policy of abstention. It's interesting that Michelle O'Neill is to be challenged on her Vice presidency of SF by John O'Dowd. This is unprecedented for sinn fein and part of me can't help but wonder if he intends on challenging this policy also. I don't know where he stands on it though.

Should that policy stay in place I'll be voting for the SDLP, who came 3rd in the last GE and a lot of my friends and family have said the same thing.

BigChocFrenzy · 10/09/2019 08:33

red That's what I feared

Those holding out for Revoke are going to end up with No Deal
Yes I would blame the hard right by far the most
But I would also blame those Remainers

When half the world is going mad, no need to join in with your own version

Hazardtired · 10/09/2019 08:37

nevertalks interesting! I'm glad the DUP support of brexit is coming back to bite them as it should! Imo because SF dont take their seats i felt as if the DUP had an even bigger responsibility to represent the people of NI in westminster in brexit discussions and they let you all down.

Please keep us informed if you can. We all care about NI but I'm in brum so have no idea what it's actually like.

placemats · 10/09/2019 08:38

What a night!

For those asking for the Plaid Cymru singing:

twitter.com/HannahB4LiviMP/status/1171227464649117697

thecatfromjapan · 10/09/2019 08:38

BigChoc I don't think VONC -- > replacing Johnson.

VONC might well have ushered in a stronger Far Right government. The FPTP system is bonkers.

At the moment, it looks as though a GE will return a slim majority for a Progressive party alliance - let's hope that holds true.

Personally, I would have liked a GNU. We still might end up with that.

QueenOfThorns · 10/09/2019 08:39

They have 5 weeks to get their act together. Hopefully common sense will win out. I’ll write to my MP again and ask him to support the WA when/if it comes back. I don’t think it’s a turd, I think it allows for the closeness of our subsequent relationship with the EU to be decided by the next government. And it includes a transition period, so even if we get the Nasty Party back, we’ve avoided the cliff edge.

NoWordForFluffy · 10/09/2019 08:40

I agree, cat.

NoWordForFluffy · 10/09/2019 08:40

And with Queen too! I'm nodding along again!

placemats · 10/09/2019 08:41

I have to disagree regarding Revoke.

A new Parliament can rejoin the EU at any time, however it's best to test the nation(s) before this is done.

One step closer otherwise to the breaking up of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Scotland were basically lied to during their referendum for Independence.

DGRossetti · 10/09/2019 08:42

I do wonder if the fad for Brexit has passed ? If so, then the Tories running a GE campaign focussed on Brexit might not produce the returns expected.

I hope Labour, LibDems, SNP, independents and others can now try and put their heads together to see whether they can find a mutually acceptable compromise "manifesto" which could be put before the house if Boris Queens speech can't cut the mustard.

Totally unrelated to the subject of Brexit, and totally related to how thick some people can be, did anyone read about the guy who spaffed £30,000 defending a £100 speeding ticket ?

Because at what point is someone going to stand up and suggest we have wasted enough on Brexit and (thanks to Leavers mendacity) got nowhere ... how much more of our pensions will we spend on it ?

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 10/09/2019 08:43

Revoke isn’t on the table and people have to be honest and recognise that in the current situation it’s not going to happen. It’s politically toxic to revoke without a PV requiring it. Neither Tory nor Labour can risk alienating leavers in their party by revoking.

I am glad the focus has finally shifted to N.I. that Peter Oborne piece was very sobering. We cannot see the GFA undermined.

placemats · 10/09/2019 08:43

I may as well be pissing in a Gale 10 force wind than try and persuade my (Tory) MP to vote for the WA. However, I will write to her, once again.

OublietteBravo · 10/09/2019 08:46

Can Boris tie the WA to the QS? So if the ERG/no-dealers want a new parliamentary session with BJ in charge they have to vote for the WA? And if the opposition want to stop no deal via the WA they have to vote for the QS?

thecatfromjapan · 10/09/2019 08:54

Anyway, five weeks of Johnson campaigning to begin.
Without the distraction of daily evidence as to how utterly incompetent and unfit he is as PM.
☹️

I do wonder if his utter incompetence wasn't a big factor in the plans to prorogue.

NotaRealLawyer · 10/09/2019 08:56

Thanks for the updates and links. I couldn't last much longer last night.
Also the NI view NeverTalksToSrangers,.

Goosebumps listening to the singing.

Watching local TV running a grab bag article.

I'm having a Dad's army moment, as in: "Don't panic Captain Mainwaring".Confused

Only it's not funny.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 10/09/2019 09:00

There were real concerns about BJ abilities as a PM in some parts of the Tory party machine. The members bought into the loveable buffoon shtick but the back room people were less convinced.

The view seems to have been that if he can play a figurehead role with a strong team behind him he would be fine. If he had to take responsibility then it could be a car crash.

BlackCatFan · 10/09/2019 09:00

Has anyone tried getting a repeat of their medication early? My meds are on the list (both of them actually - but could get by without one.) I have enough of the other to last until the end of November and can buy it online but it's expensive.. I'm thinking about asking my gp for my next prescription now, but does anyone know if they will allow it? I am even considering mentioning the potential shortages come October 31st but worried that they will dismiss this.

thecatfromjapan · 10/09/2019 09:04

Yes, Chaz.

placemats · 10/09/2019 09:06

My mum is in her 90s and she is being taken care of by her lovely GP regarding her medication. She does live in Northern Ireland though, so things might be different there.

Flowers to all of you suffering from lack of vital medication to keep you functioning. Or the fear of the lack of medication, which can be worse.

RedToothBrush · 10/09/2019 09:08

David Blevins @ skydavidblevins
Sky News understands DUP leader Arlene Foster is travelling to London for meetings today. Her party says she has “long-standing commitments” there. #Brexit

Beth Rigby @bethrigby
Johnson meets Varadkar y’day & presumably meeting Foster today. For all the ‘die in ditch’ rhetoric, his options are narrowing: No election, a legal block on No Deal exit Oct 31. His lang around backstop changed in Dublin y’day. Is he dusting down a version of May’s deal?

OP posts:
thecatfromjapan · 10/09/2019 09:08

BBC Politics confirming Harriet Harman is to run for Speaker.

thecatfromjapan · 10/09/2019 09:13

I expect him to reach-present May's Deal. He'll be eviscerated by the ERG but it might squeak through.

Unlike others on this thread, I don't want the deal to pass. It will gift Johnson a GE and put the Hard Right in power - and in charge of negotiating a final deal. Along with being in charge of government. Terrifying.

I honestly think we are very close to a progressive alliance government, with a long extension - and that opens up enormous possibilities, including stability and a change in rhetoric.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 10/09/2019 09:14

Calon Lan my favorite Welsh song to sing in the shower Grin

I don't ask for a luxurious life,
the world's gold or its fine pearls,
I ask for a happy heart,
an honest heart, a pure heart.
A pure heart full of goodness
Is fairer than the pretty lily,
None but a pure heart can sing,
Sing in the day and sing in the night.
If I wished for worldly wealth,
It would swiftly go to seed;
The riches of a virtuous, pure heart
Will bear eternal profit.
(Chorus)
Evening and morning, my wish
Rising to heaven on the wing of song
For God, for the sake of my Saviour,
To give me a pure heart.
(Chorus)

Peregrina · 10/09/2019 09:14

When I finally got to bed, I couldn't sleep, so ending up mulling things over in my brain.

I think now the Fixed Term Parliament Act is OK. It stops the PM just calling an election on a whim, but the Confidence Vote and 2/3 majority give sufficient flexibility. May got the election she wanted, but it didn't turn out the way she wanted it to.

The real problem with the Parliament just finished was that May made it a two year session.

I do agree with those MPs who said that a GE will be about a number of issues, so another Referendum will be better. Otherwise we would need to ask ourselves - how many GEs do we need before we stop talking about 'the will of the people'? It is almost certain to have changed since June 2016, although not probably sufficiently enough to be decisive either way.

I don't think we need demonise all Tory MPs either - some gave measured, thoughtful speeches. Johnson showed himself up, and I sincerely hope that he gets voted out.

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