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Brexit

Westministenders: Parliament Perogies pushing Rats in the Corner

984 replies

RedToothBrush · 09/09/2019 19:35

One Opposition MP has just talked in parliament about how little the public understand what Preroguation is and what it meant. She described how one constituent thought it was about perogies.

The Benn Bill is now law and compels Johnson to ask for an extension if we have no deal.

Something that he has said he will die in a ditch to avoid and has suggested he would break the law.

But his options are hugely limited - if he refuses to do so and we no deal accidentally now, he is potentially personally liable for loses. He has no majority and the defeats keep on coming as a result.

Everything coming out now is the behaviour of a man with his back to the wall. The only thing he can do is frame everything as a people v the establishment and hope he survived until a GE. This is a dangerous time - he is now a rat in the corner with nothing to lose.

After Rudd's resignation, not much has got better for Johnson. Several other Tory MPs have signalled they won't stand again. This might mean they decide to rebel as they have nothing to lose. Lord Wellington, who has Tory written through him like a stick of rock, has also resigned the party. Attorney General Buckland hasn't resigned but has made threatening noises if the rule of law is broken.

Proroguation now does stack pressure on Johnson. He has to be the one to make moves and that is going to be difficult for him. However it also gives him time to say and do something without the scrutiny of parliament who have been blowing his arguments and legal assertions to bits with such ease.

Today he has visited Dublin where he stood next to Leo Varadkar who was less than polite nor even particularly diplomatic. The discomfort on Johnson's face and in his body language was very obvious. Varadkar in no uncertain terms said: ""if there is no deal, it will cause disruption for British and Irish people alike", adding "there's no such thing as a clean break, or just getting it done" and that he'd recieved no workable plan.

Tonight are two emergency debates. The first has just concluded about the government's lack of willingness to release documents relating to proroguation and operation yellowhammer.

Its been reported that ministers and civil servants have used private communications to conduct government ministers and this has caused huge concerns and Grieve wants to compel the government to release them. The government have responded saying this is an invasion of privacy. This has raised the accusation that Dominic Cummings personally has rifled through the phone messages of the former treasury communications officer as he sacked her and number 10 were not particularly concerned about her privacy then.

At the same time as the debate the government were briefing the press that they would refuse to comply with demands to release information. Grieve then made the point this was leading to the complete breakdown in trust in government.

David Allen Green said that if the government were to do this we could well be headed into a full blown constitutional crisis. This is the first time he's said he thinks we are actually at this stage.

Grieve was supported by the house by 311 votes to 302 votes ordering the government to release the documents.

The second debate is about the Rule of Law and the government's obligation to obey the Rule of Law.

Yet to come tonight is another vote about an early General Election before parliament pergoies, possibly in the early hours.

In other news John Bercow has decided to stand down at the next election or on the 31st October, which ever is sooner. There are rumours he was about to be deselected by his local conservative association and against convention would have to fight an election to win back his seat. He therefore was merely taking action before he was pushed. This might also be an action to protect parliament from the election of a new speaker after another election, fearing that there might be a hard right takeover which could threaten parliamentary soverignity.

Also this:
Declan Lawn @DecLawn
ERG stalwart Andrew Bridgen on @BBCPM saying the only way he could see a NI only backstop being acceptable is if it was put to an NI-only referendum. Fascinating.

OP posts:
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Monst3ra · 10/09/2019 01:32

Glad I have this thread to keep me updated on goings on! Thank you all.

pigeononthegate · 10/09/2019 01:38

History in the making. Wouldn't have missed it for the world.

Anyone else going to be really surly getting up with the kids in a few hours? Grin

RosinaAlmaviva · 10/09/2019 01:38

Go Bercow!!! That was worth seeing.

Just as well I'm not there, though. I saw the large wooden unicorn in the Lords and I cracked up.

Belindabelle · 10/09/2019 01:38

What a night. I am off to bed to dream of Flying Flamingos.

BoreOfWhabylon · 10/09/2019 01:41

Wow! Hardly anyone in the Lords, opposition benches completely empty.

Opposition in Commons have stayed put. Bercow in Lords with a face like thunder.

Poor Black Rod - apparently it was her first proroguing

RosinaAlmaviva · 10/09/2019 01:58

And the Government didn't return to the Commons from the Lords. At the instigation of JRM apparently.

Hm. Well, basically, BJ won one and lost one: he got his prorogation, but not his election.

BBC Parliament were saying that the opening of Parliament may not be a State Opening and the Queen may not show, which would be unprecedented except when she's been pregnant, but it may be too political for her to appear. The Lord Chancellor would read her speech instead.

Apileofballyhoo · 10/09/2019 01:58

Well that is a country on the verge of disaster. Just the speaker and the opposition left in the Commons, waiting for the government party to come back in as is usual, but they didn't return. Eventually the Speaker invited the MPs who were present to shake his hand as they filed out. It's a very, very sad day for UK democracy.

Apileofballyhoo · 10/09/2019 02:00

At the instigation of JRM apparently. I have a feeling he is far more dangerous than Boris.

Peregrina · 10/09/2019 02:03

I enjoyed the SNP MP telling the Tory member to whist, not once but twice.

Rees-Mogg apparently instructed the Tories not to return to the commons after the Prorogation. Imagine if a Government led by Labour had tried any of these stunts, the outcry their would have been.

It does mean now that there can't be an election until November so Johnson either delivers Brexit with a deal, or fails to do so. I would doubt if he'd really want to resign as PM, but we shall see.

BoreOfWhabylon · 10/09/2019 02:03

Indeed (re JRM)

Interesting times. Good night all.

JeSuisPoulet · 10/09/2019 02:03

JRM is the kind I imagine has panelled doors at home with gimp rooms, artwork stolen by Nazis and KKK shrines. My opinion of him can sink no further.

BBC Parliament were saying that the opening of Parliament may not be a State Opening and the Queen may not show, which would be unprecedented except when she's been pregnant, but it may be too political for her to appear. The Lord Chancellor would read her speech instead.

Queen is tied to the lines of the train tracks with BoZoCum steaming towards her IMO.

Peregrina · 10/09/2019 02:05

It's a very, very sad day for UK democracy.

I thought the Leavers were big on democracy. I don't think they've shown up at all on this thread.

Peregrina · 10/09/2019 02:09

I wonder whether the Queen is now reflecting on the fact that she was probably lied to about the reasons for the Prorogation.

Was it symbolic of things to come that Corbyn was the first to shake the Speaker's hand?

DeRigueurMortis · 10/09/2019 02:33

<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/sep/09/brexit-latest-news-eu-no-deal-bill-royal-assent-boris-johnson-parliament-politics-live" target="_blank">https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/sep/09/brexit-latest-news-eu-no-deal-bill-royal-assent-boris-johnson-parliament-politics-live

DeRigueurMortis · 10/09/2019 02:34

Feeling quite emotional seeing the Welsh MP's not only singing, but harmonising...

JeSuisPoulet · 10/09/2019 02:35

The public gets what the public wants or wants what it gets? www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/10/duty-free-purchases-of-cigarettes-and-alcohol-to-return-under-no-deal-brexit

DeRigueurMortis · 10/09/2019 02:36

Sorry link fail - try this

mobile.twitter.com/HannahB4LiviMP/status/1171227464649117697

RosinaAlmaviva · 10/09/2019 02:43

I have a feeling he is far more dangerous than Boris. Agreed. At least he managed to sit up straight.

BJ is in a cleft stick of his own making, as Gandalf said of Saruman the White. None of the options look good:

  • Get a new deal - couldn't even if he wanted to
  • Pass the WA - ERG will be frothing at the mouth
  • No deal - he's admitted it would be a failure and with no early election might actually have to face the consequences

The Queen is in a cleft stick not of her own making. Whatever she does about the opening of Parliament, it's lose-lose, like it was with the prorogation. As Private Eye put it:

The palace, backed by Downing Street, emphasised that Brenda was simply doing what she was told. But that only served to expose the powerlessness of monarchy. Such a public display of powerlessness strengthens critics questioning the purpose of an ever-expanding, and increasingly profligate, royal family.

I'm not (yet) a republican, but even if I was I wouldn't want the monarchy weakened right now. Because this government will sell anything that isn't red hot or nailed down. Even as they boast of their commitment to the NHS via the prorogation speech, we are hearing about the cuts and rationing in North West London. There would be very rich pickings from a fallen monarchy, and they wouldn't go to the people.

JeSuisPoulet · 10/09/2019 02:47

Indeed Rosina which is why I suspect it will happen while they have control and can. Why wait for someone else to do it? Cummings insinuates he does breaks precedents to show what is abused and is therefore possible. I don't see why that stops with parliament.

RosinaAlmaviva · 10/09/2019 02:56

Would bet there is a photo of Buckingham Palace on DC's vision board, Poulet.

Anyway, a few more options for BJ:

  • Risk prison time if he doesn't request an extension
  • Knives will be out for him if he does request an extension

And then there's always:

  • Resign before the deadline so he doesn't have to choose and be the shortest serving PM of all time
Peregrina · 10/09/2019 02:57

- Resign before the deadline so he doesn't have to choose and be the shortest serving PM of all time

Develop a convenient illness which forces him to quit - can be either real illness or imaginary.

RosinaAlmaviva · 10/09/2019 03:04

Good one Peregrina! Certainly preferable to:

  • Calling a VoNC in himself
FoldyRoll · 10/09/2019 03:05

The Government's behaviour over the past week and today in particular has been spectacularly churlish and ill mannered. There is no principle or institution they claim to hold dear that they won't sacrifice at the altar of the survival of the Party. They thoroughly disgust me.

tobee · 10/09/2019 03:14

Glad I stayed up to see the prorogation shenanigans!

Re the meds on the list:- don't forget to be concerned about the ones not on the list as well as they might be ones used as substitutes for shortages and become shortages themselves! SadSadSad

Sorry for a miserable comment!

RosinaAlmaviva · 10/09/2019 03:22

tobee too true I'm afraid.

FoldyRoll entirely agree with you.

Another plan for Boris:

  • Resign office of PM in order to colonise the moon

An ambition close to DC's heart, it seems: www.buzzfeed.com/alanwhite/dominic-cummings-brexit-plan

Now this would be leaving in style. The ground shakes as BJ heads off in his rocket, armed with a Union Jack to plant on the moon. Accompanied by a cohort of Leavers determined to get out of the EU one way or another.