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Brexit

Westministenders: Is Boris going to give us one ?

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 07/09/2019 09:50

A General Election that is

Well, only when Corbyn lets him, not when BJ wants it.
So far as PM, BJ has lost 4 votes to zero wins - which is a record

BJ has been spraying around promises of billions in spending,
like a tomcat drunk on catnip, spraying the Magic Money Tree

SPADs have been forbidden to take holiday before 31 October
and of course that coup / prorogue to force No Deal and wank off the authoritarian vote

The prorogue also robs him of 5 more weeks time in which he could have forced a GE.
Whoops

BJ / Cum would ideally want a GE right after Brexit
to have achieved their No Deal, maximise their votes from the Faragist
.... all before the No Deal chickens come home to roost

Of course, as PM, BJ - or is Cummings the real PM ? - could change any pre-Brexit date that the naive think they have agreed

The Rebel Alliance have options to stop him:

BJ has sacked 21 MPs, so if the Alliance unite, they outnumber Con+DUP
Another Whoops
However, they have different aims and find it difficult to compromise
Some might prefer No Deal rather than the bogeyman Corbyn, because they don't do compromise

They could use a VoNC to replace BJ by Corbyn,
who would then ask for an extension and call a GE before Brexit
Stopping No Deal that way depends on Corbyn winning the GE - a HUGE gamble

Maybe he can use the slogan
"Brexit is the Tory project to make you forget the other Tory project: Austerity"

while to appeal to some pp, the Tories can use
"Vote to protect the bonuses of rich bankers"

Or if nothing happens by 19 October, MPs can vote for the WA, which would definitely stop No Deal
But that would require the HoC to make a decision - and it has spent several months avoiding that

Tick tock, No Deal is coming

Meanwhile, talks are ongoing for a Tory-Brexit party pact.
Reportedly, the hedge-fund donors won't fund a Tory GE campaign unless there is a pact:

www.opendemocracy.net/en/dark-money-investigations/revealed-election-pact-between-johnson-and-farage-edges-closer/

How much money does it take to buy the UK governing party ? 🤔

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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JustAnotherPoster00 · 07/09/2019 13:04

Latika M Bourke
@latikambourke
·
4h
Matthew Parris: The Conservative Party is dying.
thetimes.co.uk/article/don-t-blame-boris-for-the-tory-meltdown-ggs8vsphz

Dont have a subscription and wont even register for a free read though

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 07/09/2019 13:04

Thanks Bigchoc. Checking in having missed most of the last thread due to...well, life. Not sure how well I’d be coping with DH’s Parkinson’s if we weren’t being subjected to all this Brexshitery but I sure as hell am finding it nigh on impossible to cope with the two in combination. Flowers to other posters whose MH is suffering as a result of this god-awful mess - I know there’s a lot of us in the same (sinking) boat.

Apologies if this has been linked to already but I felt compelled to share it. This woman has lived in the U.K. since 1964, when she was 18 months old. She has worked in the NHS, paid taxes, married a British citizen, has British children and has been told there is insufficient proof of her right to permanent residency.

Shameful.

twitter.com/davidlammy/status/1170102677839241216?s=21

chomalungma · 07/09/2019 13:05

This thread has gone into a bit of a parallel universe in my view / people are talking as of anything is possible and we can pretty much start over with negotiations

With Boris gone and a GNU in power, things would change.
A spirit of working with Parliament.

FMFL · 07/09/2019 13:06

PMK thanks BigChoc

BigChocFrenzy · 07/09/2019 13:07

bear The EU's Martin Selmayr proposed back in 2018 to Liddington that there be a reswind - a long extension for the Uk to decide what it wants and then negotiate with clear aims, so we actually get somewhere

The problem is that the govt have rushed into Brexit without deciding on aims, before they had impact assessments of the various options, before they had plans

Classic business mantra: "Failing to plan is planning to fail"

Let's try again, but this time do it properly

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DeRigueurMortis · 07/09/2019 13:08

PMK

dontcallmelen · 07/09/2019 13:09

Thank you BCF & everyone else.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 07/09/2019 13:10

Others have said it before me but if May had come out with

'Well David has really dropped me in it hasnt he?'

Cue Laughs

'Everyone knows I campaigned for Remain and we lost I admit and I agree, but and this is a but, I'm afraid that the proud people of the Uk are going to have to accept that because of such a close result I believe it is there for proper and moral for me to meet with all party Leaders including our friends in the devolved parliaments and see if we can find some way of forging a consensus as to the way forward to make the United Kingdom prosperous and fair'

2017 Landslide right there and current mess never materialised

FMFL · 07/09/2019 13:11

Has the news that the EU were consulted about potential Brexit delay harmed the Rebel Alliance do you think? My thoughts are that this could play right into BorisJohnson’s hands....having to go ‘cap in hand’ to the EU, them having direct input into parliamentary decisions etc?

bombomboobah · 07/09/2019 13:12

I saw Boris birth chart I thought it looked a bit worrying

JustAnotherPoster00 · 07/09/2019 13:12

If that had happened try standing up in conference as the party leader who tried to fuck that up, you would deserve all the ire you got

chomalungma · 07/09/2019 13:12

Has the news that the EU were consulted about potential Brexit delay harmed the Rebel Alliance do you think

Given most people don't read newspapers, and only get soundbites on new or radio, I doubt it.

Most people aren't as avid followers of politics as some of us are.

Beachcomber · 07/09/2019 13:15

On the subject of Emily Thorberry on QT - I think her position is fine with regards to Brexit but her delivery was a little shaky partly because she wasn't given enough time to say things properly. This lack of time in the media to talk properly about complex issues is a real problem IMO as it discourages proper thought out responses and encourages soundbites (which are the bedrock of populism).

I think, given time, Emily would have argued that the current mess is not of Labour's making. And, that in order to sort out the mess the Tories have made, whilst also respecting the "will of the people" and trying to not do untold damage to the economy, the position she outlines is the only possible way forward. Plus there is nothing wrong and much to be gained by moving away from the black and white tribalism that is patently not working and is proving to be increasingly divisive.

Fiona Bruce and Ian whatshisname really annoyed me with their journo snidey "what a ridiculous indefensible proposal" attitude. What exactly do the journos want Labour to do?!

JustAnotherPoster00 · 07/09/2019 13:17

What exactly do the journos want Labour to do?!

Be the conveniant BoogeyMan that stops greater accountability into press and media bias

Frankiestein402 · 07/09/2019 13:18

anything is possible and we can pretty much start over with negotiations

That is what we will do anyway, whoever is in government - negotiations for the deal are not tied to the PD - everything, including 'no trade deal' is possible in the negotiations.

All that is being covered now is the WA

yolofish · 07/09/2019 13:23

PMK Wine

BigChocFrenzy · 07/09/2019 13:27

Yes, the new PD would just set out the "framework" for the future relationship , where both sides are aiming for

The actual trade negotiations will take years, whatever kind of Brexit we have

More years after No Deal if there is a hard right govt, because they will hold out for months, maybe even years, as the economy crumbles
before giving in and accepting the 3 main WA planks to start EU trade negotiations

At least with a WA (with its new PD) we skip the ruinous holdout stage
and do out trade negotiating while in transition, so keeping the main benefits of EU trade & agencies
I expect both sides will agree to amend the WA, now or later, to allow more transition extensions

  • I don't want to see the UK negotiating under the time cosh again
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BoreOfWhabylon · 07/09/2019 13:32

Radio 4 Any Questions on now. Worth listening, imo Especially what Antoinette Sandbach (Tory rebel) has to say. Also Hillary Benn, Kirsty Blackman, Nigel Evans.

Listen from the start here www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000843j

BoreOfWhabylon · 07/09/2019 13:36

A. Sandbach - BJ confirmed to her that there was no plan; contrary to what BJ has said about 'reaching out' to the Tory rebels, no-one has contacted her since she was slung out on her ear.

borntobequiet · 07/09/2019 13:36

LOADS of police in Whitehall. Many many more police vehicles than in this view towards Parliament Sq. I asked a policewoman if there were many more than previously - "yes".

Westministenders: Is Boris  going to give us one ?
Triglesoffy · 07/09/2019 13:42

Is there a demonstration today?

BigChocFrenzy · 07/09/2019 13:53

How can BJ do what TMay could not ?

Drop down to 43 short of a majority and there's no benefit in pandering to the 10 DUP MPs

Matthew O'Toole@MatthewOToole2 (former no 10 civil servant)

Anyone asked whether there is any point in the DUP's C&S deal anymore?

When you've got a majority of minus 43, in what sense are they relevant?

A more rational No 10 in this position could simply use this opportunity to submit deal with an NI-only backstop.
It might well pass.

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Bearbehind · 07/09/2019 13:53

We've been assured many many times over different threads by Leavers that it wasnt about immigration

This is what I mean about slipping down the rabbit hole.

Do you honestly believe that?

Is there any evidence of that IRL because there certainly isn’t in my RL.

For every Leaver I know it is, and always was, only about foreigners.

Whether that be them meddling from the continent or physically living here - that’s what’s it’s all about.

Apileofballyhoo · 07/09/2019 13:53

Bear what do you think should happen? You sound like you're for No Deal, am I reading that wrong?

NotaRealLawyer · 07/09/2019 13:53

Local Conservatives here holding a Special General meeting end of September to choose a Parliamentary candidate. No names in the public domain so far.

Northern "Leave" area. Long serving Labour MP, with a good majority. Well respected.

People's Vote out and about the local market today, leafleting, talking to people and holding a public meeting. Very pro active.

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