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Brexit

Westministenders: Is Boris going to give us one ?

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 07/09/2019 09:50

A General Election that is

Well, only when Corbyn lets him, not when BJ wants it.
So far as PM, BJ has lost 4 votes to zero wins - which is a record

BJ has been spraying around promises of billions in spending,
like a tomcat drunk on catnip, spraying the Magic Money Tree

SPADs have been forbidden to take holiday before 31 October
and of course that coup / prorogue to force No Deal and wank off the authoritarian vote

The prorogue also robs him of 5 more weeks time in which he could have forced a GE.
Whoops

BJ / Cum would ideally want a GE right after Brexit
to have achieved their No Deal, maximise their votes from the Faragist
.... all before the No Deal chickens come home to roost

Of course, as PM, BJ - or is Cummings the real PM ? - could change any pre-Brexit date that the naive think they have agreed

The Rebel Alliance have options to stop him:

BJ has sacked 21 MPs, so if the Alliance unite, they outnumber Con+DUP
Another Whoops
However, they have different aims and find it difficult to compromise
Some might prefer No Deal rather than the bogeyman Corbyn, because they don't do compromise

They could use a VoNC to replace BJ by Corbyn,
who would then ask for an extension and call a GE before Brexit
Stopping No Deal that way depends on Corbyn winning the GE - a HUGE gamble

Maybe he can use the slogan
"Brexit is the Tory project to make you forget the other Tory project: Austerity"

while to appeal to some pp, the Tories can use
"Vote to protect the bonuses of rich bankers"

Or if nothing happens by 19 October, MPs can vote for the WA, which would definitely stop No Deal
But that would require the HoC to make a decision - and it has spent several months avoiding that

Tick tock, No Deal is coming

Meanwhile, talks are ongoing for a Tory-Brexit party pact.
Reportedly, the hedge-fund donors won't fund a Tory GE campaign unless there is a pact:

www.opendemocracy.net/en/dark-money-investigations/revealed-election-pact-between-johnson-and-farage-edges-closer/

How much money does it take to buy the UK governing party ? 🤔

OP posts:
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33
Basilpots · 08/09/2019 09:58

1/ In other words, the fact that HMG would violate the EU Treaties by not nominating a candidate Commissioner would not make the U.K. a non member State.

^^ The irony of Uk been booted out of the EU because it refused to comply with the EUs DEMOCRACY by VOTING.

Peak Brexit.

frumpety · 08/09/2019 09:58

How many Leave voters would happily put their hands up and say they are far right ? Their definition of what that is and your definition will be different.

DGRossetti · 08/09/2019 09:59

If the Tory/BXP coup completes, Saj and Patel will need new jobs. There's no room, for any non white faces (or names) in Brave New Britain.

The thing is they know they are being used as fig leaves - they may think they are riding the horse, but I can assure them, they are not.

We know Boris is a coward - that weird type that is happy to secure a defining photograph next to a fucking bull in field, but one that is willing to push others under the cameras before himself.

I wonder if now prorogation is legal, Boris wheeze will simply be to extend it to November 1st ?

JeSuisPoulet · 08/09/2019 10:01

Wheresmymojo yes the Civil Contingencies is very up Cumming's street IMO. Links to the use of the police the other day too. That could be touted to BJ as his Get Out Of Jail Free card.

JeSuisPoulet · 08/09/2019 10:02

Driedlimes yes but we can't have house prices staying the same if huge swathes are put on the market all at the same time. Maybe over a 5-10yr period?

OublietteBravo · 08/09/2019 10:04

RE: loophole

Has to be a play around the WA being the deal really, doesn’t it?

Peregrina · 08/09/2019 10:04

About rentals - DD also says that Air BnB is destroying the market. Why rent out for £800 a month and all the tedium of rental contracts when you can get £100 for people wanting 2-3 night stays? It does of course, depend where you are.

smilethoyourheartisbreaking · 08/09/2019 10:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

prettybird · 08/09/2019 10:06

I'm pretty sure there won't be loopholes found in the text. It's been written very clearly.

The advantage of having QCs and a former Attorney General amongst those involved in drafting it Grin

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 08/09/2019 10:09

The obvious loophole, in the sense of the government not asking, is for them not to be the government at the time.

JeSuisPoulet · 08/09/2019 10:09

Yes Peregrina a lot of the student using landlords here hate AirBnB because others are making more than them. However they are too lazy to think about changing sheets/breakfast needs/the little touches and contact with more than 1 changeover in a week!
Something does need to change, so I am glad Labour are looking into it, personally.

NotaRealLawyer · 08/09/2019 10:11

It would only be a state of emergency because BJ as PM has caused the emergency by ignoring what he was mandated to do by the Law?

What a shabby shenanigans all this is.

Singasonga · 08/09/2019 10:13

I agree that many people don't think of themselves as being pro-authoritarian. I think a lot of people in the UK are quite vulnerable to authoritarianism, though. My inlaws (my middle England, vote-for-a-donkey-if-it's-got-a-blue-rosette, Daily Express-reading litmus test) seem to have an almost compulsive need to follow the herd. If "everyone" is thinking/doing something - or they can be persuaded that everyone is - then they will back it without thinking about it too hard.

Driedlimes · 08/09/2019 10:14

@JeSuisPoulet
I agree - that would mitigate the problem but in practice you are talking about random homes all over the country, all sales subject to the ability of the tenant to raise the money so I'm not sure how necessary it would be.

A commitment to build more council owned homes would probably be more impactful but that needs money!

DGRossetti · 08/09/2019 10:17

About rentals - DD also says that Air BnB is destroying the market.

Only because they're trousering the cash without carrying any responsibility (see also: Uber). Wait till there's a really nasty fire with lots of people killed, and AirBnB suddenly say "Nothing to do with us, guv".

Uber have already tried to distance themselves from their drivers, when it turns out they rape and assault - despite having convictions for the same when "taken on" by Uber.

It's the capitalists wet dream, and what you'll see in the NHS soon. Loads of micro layers of "consultants" who shave a % off here and there whilst adding fuck all to the value chain, and mysteriously having no liability in return for that cash.

And in a legally asymmetric country like the UK, anyone poor can whistle when it comes to access to justice. As Grenfell survivors, and Windrush victims are discovering.

The news that judges were unhappy in quite a few court cases where it was clear justice was not possible due to legal aid cuts didn't disappear after it was reported.

JeSuisPoulet · 08/09/2019 10:18

@DriedLimes where I live 1 in 5 people is a student. I think you'd be surprised how much certain areas' housing is taken up by the rental market.

Re authoritarianism, my Leave friends don't think they are right of centre at all! My Leave friend who I used to call daily said she was a "moderate" tory - she believed strongly in eugenics for poor people and cuts to welfare. My No Dealer friend hates the tories and frequently blames them for slights to disabled/vets/homeless people. He wants the death penalty and abortion terms to be lowered.

wheresmymojo · 08/09/2019 10:18

But how is no deal an emergency? I thought it was the 'best' way forward

Under the act a Minister of the Crown can say that any event is an emergency within bounds of reasonableness.

So BJ gets some kind of tweaked TM deal and takes to Parliament. It's voted down.

BJ declares that there is no other deal to be had so we will no deal in January by default.

Says he's didn't want to panic the public but there is an issue with the supply of X (maybe one medication?) that threatens human life.

Declares an emergency under CCA. Dissolves Parliament for 30 days. Can pass regulations during that time -

This is where my idea runs out of steam as what then?

Surely they couldn't call No Deal an emergency and then use the 30 days to bring on No Deal earlier? But I don't put anything past them...

Sorry - I know it sounds bonkers but I've checked and this has been touted by a couple of sources as the only way out now if BJ won't ask for an extension and won't resign (as noted by The Saj).

He can put forward a VoNC in his own Govt but wouldn't get the numbers so I think that idea is dead in the water. Opposition would just call it out as a cynical no deal ploy.

Other than Labour caving to a GE (which they're trying to pressure them in to but must know it's not going to happen) then what else?

I'm trying to channel my inner 'what would I do if I was a Brexiter single minded total arsehole?'

JeSuisPoulet · 08/09/2019 10:20

@Dried the main £ being made is on students, who would not be able to buy the home they share with other students. It fails therefore to protect the people on the lowest rung - those with zero hours and the ones sharing property to rent.

wheresmymojo · 08/09/2019 10:22

If the Tory/BXP coup completes, Saj and Patel will need new jobs

I think they'll be kept as tokens. Patel is pretty right wing and they'll use her as a 'we can't possibly be fascists because look...' card.

She will be Eva Braun. I mean if a Jew can marry Hitler...

Singasonga · 08/09/2019 10:22

If the Tory/BXP coup completes, Saj and Patel will need new jobs. There's no room, for any non white faces (or names) in Brave New Britain.

I disagree DGR, I think Patel will be kept because she heads off well-meaning, identity politics type young activists before they can really get going. All she has to do is say, "But speaking as a BAME woman, my lived experience is..." and an enormous number of them will immediately shut up.

That will reduce "appropriately qualified" progressive resistance to just BAME activists, who are already a targeted minority and will be under growing pressure to keep their heads down. This dynamic has been playing out in the TERF wars for a couple of years now, so by this point only lesbian women and a few transsexual women (both minorities) have any sort of "yoof" credibility to fight the current assault on women's rights.

DGRossetti · 08/09/2019 10:23

If "everyone" is thinking/doing something - or they can be persuaded that everyone is - then they will back it without thinking about it too hard.

Hmm

I'd just note that such "compliance" is extremely fickle though, and is probably more often than not justified by the phrase "but that's different".

My DF (for example) was very dogmatic that I should be my own person, and never "copy what my friends do". Which generally suited me. Until I became a vegetarian (briefly, I got better Grin) - the only one in my peer group. The it was "why do you have to be different ? Everyone eats meat, what's so special about you ?"

I think they prefer it as a cloak for their own expression of any NPD traits ....

wheresmymojo · 08/09/2019 10:26

The right to buy issue will be played up by right wing press but he was clear that sale price should reflect market value

Yes...but if that's the case then how does it help?

If the tenants have the money to buy the property at market value I'm pretty sure you'd normally choose to buy on the market and move rather than start a process which will ultimately lead to incredibly negative relations with your current landlord during the sale process and the person selling the house?

It would be very stressful...

DGRossetti · 08/09/2019 10:26

I think they'll be kept as tokens. Patel is pretty right wing and they'll use her as a 'we can't possibly be fascists because look...' card.

The whole aim of the lurch to the right is to - very publically - dispense with the need for tokens. They are a sign of weakness and needing support from your enemies. Hitler did not need any tokens in his Wermacht.

She will be Eva Braun. I mean if a Jew can marry Hitler...

All that shows is that Hitler did not actually believe the shite he made others believe in. A hypocrite. Fancy that ?

Driedlimes · 08/09/2019 10:30

@JeSuisPoulet I don't disagree. It probably doesn't achieve much for the people who need decent affordable housing & has unintended consequences for them as you point out - which I hadn't thought through.

I'm coming at it from a different angle - i.e. I don't see the proposal as some sort of far left takeover of private property & McDonnell is looking increasing sane & reasonable (to Blairite types such as me).

JeSuisPoulet · 08/09/2019 10:31

re tokens I think they are tipping the party upside down and shaking very hard to dislodge any "naysayers" they want yesmen. I think clinging on for survival will only get these people so far. They will be tested to their limits and found wanting.

Would like to also point out I don't speak to my Leaver friend and my No Dealer 'friend' is actually a recently found distant relative Blush whom thankfully I don't have to see more than 1 time a year out of courtesy. No idea why I felt I had to explain that, but context is possibly important when we look out of our bubble.