Can remainers tell me why you wouldn't vote for Corbyn in a GE?

[CaptainWarbeck]

Discussing Brexit with centre right friend who is adament despite voting Labour in previous elections she would never vote for Corbyn. When pressed she mentions links to trade unions but can't tell me why that's a bad thing.

I don't love Corbyn but I would vote for him over the absolute mess that is the Tories at the moment. Why for remain/Labour voters right now is he so politically toxic?

Oh, and the disgrace of all the moderate labour MPs kicked out of left the part6 as they were made so unwelcome. Rivals boris Johnson on that one

I agree with what Bellinsurge said right at the top of the thread. I am a lifelong labour voter, former activist and I am terminally disgusted with the Lib Dem’s after their shambolic and traitorous coalition activities so struggle to have an alternative to vote for. Corbyn needs to go. He, and Momentum, are destroying the party.

Which moderate MPs were these? how many and when?

21 in one day, 5 leaving for other parties? or to set up their own party?

There is no equivalence is there?

@Beachcomber I maintain my point on whopping increases. A 36% change in any kind of tax rate is whopping in my book. The extent of the increase is a different point to the overall rate.

Certainly questions can be asked about the press reporting of Brexit and the broader political situation. The best way to deal with this is to read widely, across the U.K. and some foreign press, as I do when I can find the time.

I'm a lawyer. I've been asked to advise on the implications of Brexit, and the implications of a Corbyn-led labour government. Many businesses are concerned by both. Some are, or are preparing, to move operations or investment out of the U.K. In general, businesses being deterred from doing business in the U.K. is a bad thing for jobs and the tax take.

He's not my MP so I can't vote for him. Quite simple.

I will vote for my Labour MP who does a great job and will continue to do a great job, regardless of who the party leader is.

@Aurumnintheair why do you ask “Do you read anything other than the guardian or morning star?“

@BertrandRussell
It's based on talks with my local Labour candidates when they cold call looking for a vote over the past decade, feedback from members of Labour EHE groups who do vote Labour & are party members actively trying to promote EHE as a valid form of education from within the party over a number of years, things like Lord Soleys ridiculous Bill (for which he was unable to provide any proof for any of the reasons he gave as to why he wanted EHE officers - who belong to no particular professional body, require no specific professional training or qualifications in order to do the job & are a mix of ex teachers, random council employees etc.. & certainly have no advanced safeguarding training - to gain powers greater than those Social Services have when faced with an S47 or 17 investigation amongst other things) or for introducing when meeting with EHE representatives) & various other feedback about things like the recent National Policy Forum consultation about Local Accountability within the National Education Service.

no idea where 'or for introducing' came from, forgot to preview sorry.

ps Lord Soleys reasons boiled down to "um, I think it based on no facts or verifiable evidence"

I'm Irish, so I don't have a vote. But if I was British, I wouldn't touch him because I'm gender critical and he panders to this woke trans bullshit and sells women down the river. So fuck him.

Bertrand why do you keep asking questions the answers to which are blindingly obvious? It does come over as awfully patronising. “I’m going to encourage these terribly silly little people to think through their ill considered opinions, and then they’ll bow to my superior wisdom.”
I’m not sure it works.

I can vote labour / green/ Lib Dem or whatever safely and smugly whilst knowing that our MP will continue to be Tory come what may. I am not a fan of Jeremy Corbyn as I don't see him as a leader over Brexit and he is a bit far left for my taste BUT surely any labour government is going to be an improvement on what we have now and if it isn't we can vote it out next time. I am utterly sick of seeing division being whipped up around the Brexit question and really resent our government over the last few years for getting us into this shitstorm. I am also fed up with the erosion of public services and the preposterous waste of money on the Brexit project so I am looking forward with hope rather than confidence in a new regime.

“Bertrand why do you keep asking questions the answers to which are blindingly obvious?”
Because they aren’t blindingly obvious. If people make statements about Labour Party policy that bear no relation at all to anything in the Manifesto then they should expect to be asked to substantiate them.

The MSM have been brainwashed to portray JC as the villain, the Labour Party as no good for the country. Most of the national papers are owned by Tory supporters. If you want to know anything about the Labour Party, look at their website, read their manifesto. Unless you are a millionaire there is nothing to fear from a Labour government.

Should they indeed? Well well. That’s them telt.
Trouble is, all you end up doing is confirming the stereotype of hectoring, superior, dictatorial lefties. No doubt you feel you’ve put people in their place but It’s not a great strategy for persuading people to change their minds - which I assume must be your intention, given the amount of time you’re dedicating to this.

Agree, TheBigBallOfOil

There is not and never has been trust that parties will stick to manifestos. It's more just a general direction, sometimes with 'but it was/wasn't in the manifesto' cropping up as party of later commentaries.

On a slightly separate note, an opinion poll pop up this morning, which gives Tories a clear 10 point lead.

So I think that's the real reason why a GE is being refused by the opposition. A wet-free majority Tory govt will ensure Brexit happens, even if it is dragged out for another 6 months.

I don't like the man or where he is leading Labour.

The MSM have been brainwashed to portray JC as the villain, the Labour Party as no good for the country.

Brainwashed by who?

Certainly all newspapers will have a bias. Yes some will be being more positive about one side or the other in the run up to the election. I try to read a wide range of sources on all sides.

What I am concerned about re: Corbyn, McDonnell, Milne is verified by various sources, including words that came out of their own mouths, and people who know them.

Well possible/likely election who knows we might avoid it somehow.

The main reason has to be that Labour don’t actually have a firm stance on Brexit

Ok, they don’t want no deal and want to protect jobs but it’s not at all clear which red lines they’d give up in order to secure this

That’s just back to cake and eat it thinking

What is the point in voting for them if we don’t know what Brexit they’d deliver either

@bearbehind

What is the point in voting for them if we don’t know what Brexit they’d deliver either

Excellent question.

Watch Emily thornberry on last Thursday Question Time. If labour was in power she was going to negotiate a deal with EU that protects jobs and then campaign to remain in the EU.

No wonder polls are showing more people fear Corbyn as PM more than they fear a no deal brexit

I wouldn’t say I ‘feared’ Corbyn as PM so much as I just don’t see the point

What would he actually achieve WRT Brexit?

The last thing we need is to endlessly drag out this uncertainty

Corbyn's complete disregard for women, as evidenced by his support for men who claim to be female.

His lack of control at the helm wrt antisemitism.

Momentum.

Even if the second and third of those were addressed there's no way I'd give my vote to a person or party which entertains the likes of that misogynist Madigan.

I think I have many problems with him by the final straw was that he hasn’t stood up for the EU or had a coherent brexit policy.

As for all the “tax the rich” etc, when people say that, they always mean only those richer than them which tends not to raise much revenue. You have to be a higher rate taxpayer to pay your way - it’s not true that the poor are paying a disproportionate amount of tax.

As for all those supposed “loopholes” the rich can use, what are they? I used to work in international tax. If you are resident in the uk you pay tax on your worldwide income, regardless of whether it comes from the Cayman Islands or not.

The convenient narrative that we can easily make imaginary rich people who are not paying their way to pay for everything we happen to want is just rubbish. To raise significant amounts of tax, we need to tax the people in the middle. These are the swing voters so no one wants to be seen to tax them.