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Brexit

Westminstenders: "He's in trouble". No he's not.

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 06/09/2019 00:48

All day I've seen nothing but comments and tweets about he Johnson is in trouble and he's losing it.

They are wrong. He's far from done.

Take a step through the Looking Glass and the world looks different.

Those tweeting and reporting all care about events and are following closely. They are unrepresentative of the population as a whole who don't give two shiny shits.

And so we have the Trump dynamic.

The Liberal elite of broadcasters and journalists who are only seeing through the lens of their own judgement, not from the repackaged marketing.

Instead they are unwittingly publishing the images and slogans in the format Johnson wants and enter the minds of the public as planned.

The media are out of step with perceptions. And that's worrying. They don't see what's coming.

Johnson will have an election at some point. With the Tory party cleansed of moderates it is the Brexit Party one way or another, whether it be by takeover or coalition. And its riding high in the polling.

Even though even his brother has abandoned him, the future looks positive for Johnson as his opponents have a complete lack of self awareness and no understanding of the opposition they are taking on; they are campaigning in a way that plays into the hands of Johnson.

Despite his lack of majority and apparently absence of plan or speech notes, the biggest mistake you can make now is to write off Johnson.

You do so at your own peril.

Pay close attention to how authoritarians work and what's already happened in the US. We are on course to repeat it.

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thecatfromjapan · 06/09/2019 21:43

That's a brilliant outlining of Labour policy, BugChoc.

I'm a Remainer, probably more Hard Remain than many on this thread 😁🦄🦄🦄🦄 but I've reluctantly come to accept the virtues of an actual deal that people can see and then a vote.

And, yes, people may then vote for that - and I guess I'll have to suck it up.

or carry on campaigning to re-join

Actually, I'm still a bit ambivalent. I will always wonder what might have happened if The progressive left had argued harder for Remain.

But we are so, so past that now. So, so past it.

The place we are, and the road we are on, is not nice. It's pretty worrying.

But I worry that even speaking those words frightens people into making bad choices, and making the ropes tighten.

Anyway - I'm off on holiday for a few days.

Keep well, people. And have the loveliest weekend. 💐

Oakenbeach · 06/09/2019 21:45

@BigChocFrenzy

Totally agree with your analysis re PV....

Given the country continues to be largely split down the middle, the only thing it would achieve is to undermine democracy still further, and divide us even more completely.

Brexit has caused our democracy to the stretched to breaking point.... Continue the stress and it might just break completely with a “final say” (hollow laugh) referendum....

Imo remainers who just can’t conceive leaving and place staying in the EU above all else are as cult like as “No-deal only” Brexiteers, and oblivious to the damage they risk doing to democracy and the fabric of society in this country.

ListeningQuietly · 06/09/2019 21:46

At which stage I know greenpeace must be drunk
not a single leaver will EVER think the WA is Brexit. Not ever
tee hee

Who is paying you sweetie ?

BigChocFrenzy · 06/09/2019 21:49

derxa It is not over-egging

I've been surprised by how kind Germans at work or gym are being, all the advice and good wishes I've received
Even when the papers were reporting Uk politicians talking about huns and nazis.
They seem to realise that's just politicians

I've posted about a German woman at the gym who keeps gushing over my English accent.
It started after a group of us were discussing Brexit and what might happen to the UK and to expats
I don't think she can think of anything else positive to say to me Grin

Songsofexperience · 06/09/2019 21:49

The intransigence and disrespect has been too much

What insults? What disrespect? Can we stick to the facts? Unfortunately insults have come from the UK almost daily. The press has mostly been awful (bar the guardian, ft and independent)

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 06/09/2019 21:49

not a single leaver will EVER think the WA is Brexit. Not ever
Other than the real life ones I know, who were sold on the Norway deal.
But they're not tru-believers and haven't earned their unicorn horns so probably don't count

Greenpeacefriendforlife · 06/09/2019 21:50

There will be no final say oak I find it incredible that anyone will give a second ref any creditability. Of course they won’t. It will be a stitch up by the establishment if remain were to win. You surely must know the result wouldn’t be respected (in the same way the first would not have been)

Implement the result properly, keep democracy. It’s the only way.

MmeBufo · 06/09/2019 21:50

Led By Donkeys

Westminstenders: "He's in trouble". No he's not.
BigChocFrenzy · 06/09/2019 21:51

"we are feeling pretty bloody punchy"

But I thought Brexit is going to be great ? Hmm

And if you are so rich and high-powered, why are you worried, anyway ?

Eyewhisker · 06/09/2019 21:51

Greenpeace - that’s a bit ridiculous. Gove said he would vote for it again - so that’s one, and Johnson and Rees-Mogg have also voted for it. So at least three.

With an NI only backstop, the WA is a great agreement for the UK as they can end FOM, end payments and still have preferential access. The backstop is supported by the majority in NI, and protects the GFA, so I honestly do not see what the problem is.

If the DUP were not in power it would have passed long ago. The DUP are hyperbolic nutters, and I cannot believe that the Conservatives have allowed the rest of the UK to get dragged down with them. With an NI-only backstop it’s a great deal.

Songsofexperience · 06/09/2019 21:54

Have you been in touch with reality recently?

Ha more like they've been in touch with the troll factory

BigChocFrenzy · 06/09/2019 21:54

"Otherwise please expect for hospitals and schools to close en masse" Hmm
"Its an absolute indulgence to imagine the country will survive a Corbyn government" Hmm

Doesn't sound like you're posting from the UK either, tovarich 😂😂

OublietteBravo · 06/09/2019 21:55

Can I just make it crystal clear, not a single leaver will EVER think the WA is Brexit. Not ever.

A bit difficult to justify your stance given the definition of Brexit appears to be “Brexit means Brexit”

And are you suggesting that those leave-supporting MPs who backed the WA in previous parliamentary votes don’t actually think it’s Brexit. Really?!

Also, can I ask who nominated you as spokesperson for every single leave voter? Because I’m confident I can find at least one who would think the WA was Brexit.

BigChocFrenzy · 06/09/2019 21:58

Leave campaigners talked a lot about Norway and how it would be mad to leave the Single Market
Farage, Patterson, .....

Then right after the ref, the hedge-funders took over - and the Russian bots got busy again - and suddenly the only true Leave became No Deal Hmm

Songsofexperience · 06/09/2019 21:58

Implement the result properly, keep democracy. It’s the only way.

Yeah... The only way to turn London into the world's laundromat for dodgy finance... (even more than it already is)
Isn't that what really floats your boat?

mrslaughan · 06/09/2019 21:58

Leavers around here..... all bullies, all talk in sound-bites and slogans with nothing behind it..... cold fury? None around here..... just bullies.

DH high earner - he and I both have said we would never vote Corbyn. I would say that position has softened. We have always preferred remain, but when the vote happened thought leave would involve staying in the CU/SM - that was obviously a pretty stupid assumption. Now we would just love the WA to pass.

Anyway - I think many remainers are like us - just want to stop no deal. Would happily pay extra tax - to prevent the financial disaster that could be brought on friends and members of the community less fortunate than us by no deal - and if thy means Corbyn - well so be it...... just 🤞🏻that the more moderate labour MO's would temper him abit.

OublietteBravo · 06/09/2019 22:00

I could write an essay on how hindsight has changed people’s perception of what they voted for in the referendum when they voted leave. But instead I’m going to go to bed because I have to get up and get DS to school tomorrow.

thecatfromjapan · 06/09/2019 22:01

Meanwhile, I follow a few weird Brexit accounts on Twitter - & I think the thing that really rattled them is the idea of Johnson being made to look small & weak.

Johnson calling for an election ('I don't want it; I do want it; i don't want it!!!') & having that refused has rattled them.

As an aside, it reminds me of the truly brilliant song by Grace Jones, 'From the Nipple to the Bottle' & it's refrain: 'You won't get it, cos I won't give it, though you rant & rave & manipulate me.'

And Jess Phillips, calling them babies & Johnson the Baby-in-Chief (the last not explicitly) is unsettling the image they wish to convey.

It's so strange. A future historian will have a field-day analysing the psycho-sexual drives of this fragile imaginary masculinity-adulthood that is seeking assuagemdnt and reassurance through Brexit.

Anyway, it's just something I've noticed & thought I'd throw it out there.

flouncyfanny · 06/09/2019 22:01

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BigChocFrenzy · 06/09/2019 22:03

Polls show many Leavers would prefer a soft SM-type Brexit, or a medium, or the WA
However, most would chose No Deal rather than Revoke

iirc, our regular Leave poster, Louise would accept the WA - but not a PV

Then there are all those Brexiter MPs who voted for the WA, even some of the ERG gritted their teeth and did so.

Even BJ .....

thecatfromjapan · 06/09/2019 22:03

I need to go to bed too - but thank you to the poster who posted the Lex By Donkeys picture.

That's cheered me right up. 🙂

BigChocFrenzy · 06/09/2019 22:04

flouncy Grin

flouncyfanny · 06/09/2019 22:05

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mrslaughan · 06/09/2019 22:05

Because leavers be-leave what their leaders (Farage and ERG-ist's) tell them - brexit has always been defined by their whims - it's never been defined.
If we had a MSM who was actually doing their job and questioning the lies, challenging the lies with facts - rather than just being talking heads, I think a lot of the leave leaders/promoters power would be diminished.

Notice who is out protesting in force - it's those against no deal, against the hijacking of our democracy- not the leavers (yes there are a Small number, but nothing by comparison)

smilethoyourheartisbreaking · 06/09/2019 22:07

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