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Brexit

Westminstenders: Skullduggery Fatigue

959 replies

RedToothBrush · 04/09/2019 22:19

A recap as best I can

Johnson-Cummings wanted an election. Their entire strategy was based on getting one before 31st Oct to get a majority to force No Deal through and retain power for 5 years.

They protested they didn't. They poked and tried to provoke and outrage in order to get one

But the trap was spotted.

The Commons instead voted to give power to parliament to control the timetable in order to try and block no deal.

This came at a high price for 21 Tory rebels who have been kicked out of the party ungraciously and without an ounce of the respect that the HoC usually demands despite differences of opinion and its pantomime jeers.

This combined with Johnson's prorogation (and what seems to be lying to the Queen in order to get her consent if the Cherry case to block prorogation seems to be suggesting) has shocked and enraged Tory 'moderates'.

Johnson under estimated the size of the rebellion and his threat to deselect seemed to spur on rebels rather than deter them, as it made them perceive Johnson as a threat to democracy and the constitution more than if he'd taken a softer line.

He also seems to have underestimated the internal reaction amongst those who remained loyal to the party. One MP is on record saying Johnson can't take his vote for granted. At the 1922 committee MPs who stood up for the rebels were cheered whilst those who stood up for government jeered. Johnson blamed his whip for the expulsions rather than take responsibility himself which again hasn't gone down well. The chair of the One Nation Tories Damien Green has written to the PM demanding their reinstatement so all is definitely not well. Johnson has ploughed on with the selection of the rebels replacements nonetheless. The idea was to strengthen Johnson and end the internal tory civil war but his heavy handed approach doesn't seem to have settled matters yet at least. Tonight Caroline Spelman joined the rebellion but hasn't been expelled from the party, which makes last nights hard line look even worse.

The bill to block no deal passed the Commons and has gone to the lords. The Kinnock Amendment to try and return May's deal passed in an act of government skullduggery designed to sink the bill completely but thus does not seem to have paid off and may yet provide an emergency escape route from no deal. It highlights the extent Johnson will use dirty tricks.

Tonight the vote was for a GE. Under the Fixed Term Parliament Act the government needed 2/3rds of parliament to trigger one.

Labour, figuring it was a trap, havent bitten. Instead they have made preconditions to triggering one.

This scuppers Johnson's plan and its not clear where we go from here. Johnson us a lame duck but has the power of the PM's office.

He can create a vision that it's the people v parliament to help him for when we do have a GE which is now all but inevitable. This is dangerous.

But no deal is dangerous too.

The stakes are high.

Hopefully the no deal bill will pass the lords though may be hampered all weekend by filibustering.

It returns to the Commons on Monday where it needs to pass.

Then we are expecting prorogation to commence.

For Johnson who needed a GE on the 15th, Monday is his last day to trigger it. Expect more dirty tricks but he's running out of options

Come mid October the pressure for a deal will ramp up on Johnson. No deal is still the default but he will have to be seen to be doing something, not just blaming everyone else and taking no responsibility himself.

Will prorogation go ahead in these circumstances? It's now open to debate...

Johnson-Cummings strategy still could work, but it's substantially weakened and now Johnson will have to do something more radical and possibly illegal to get his own way.

And that General Election before the fall out if No Deal is still his ultimate goal as its his gateway to retain power...

... Expect even more fireworks to come.

OP posts:
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JustAnotherPoster00 · 05/09/2019 22:07

you should hope that in the GE the voters delight poster and make Corbyn PM grin

That would be one of those gifts you used to have to sacrifice a birthday and christmas to get as a kid (a colour TV in my bedroom as it happens) but I'll take the win Grin Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 05/09/2019 22:09

I highly recommend reading John Major's speech today to the CBI
to remind you what the Tory mainstream used to be - he was thought very boring middle of the road

Shows how the party has deteriorated

www.johnmajorarchive.org.uk/2015-2/speech-at-cbi-annual-dinner-5-september-2019/

Peregrina · 05/09/2019 22:11

I now feel a certain sympathy for those politicians in the late 1930s, who didn't like the way things were going, but tried to do their best.

BigChocFrenzy · 05/09/2019 22:12

And - unless it makes BJ run away and lock himself in the loo for the next few months - it doesn't really matter Hmm

Tom Newton Dunn@tnewtondunn

Boris Johnson's day from hell:

  1. Brother Jo walks out on him, suggesting he's not acting in national interest
  2. Has to blow out the Queen to spend only one night in Balmoral
  3. Female police cadet collapses behind him having stood in line for an hour waiting
JustAnotherPoster00 · 05/09/2019 22:15

I just finished reading it BCF and was going to say similar, I didnt hate Major as much as I did Thatcher, I think Spitting Image 'The Peas are good tonight Dear' thing did for him but WOW, seriously

Belindabelle · 05/09/2019 22:16

You know you are living through strange times when you find yourself empathising with John Major.

Grinchly · 05/09/2019 22:19

Another vote for the Major speech.

chomalungma · 05/09/2019 22:24

I hope Rees - Mogg says this in the House as well

Rees-Mogg apologises for 'unacceptable' comments

The leader of the Commons, Jacob Rees-Mogg, has apologised to Dr David Nicholl for comparing him to Andrew Wakefield, the disgraced anti-vaxxer who was widely blamed for the MMR jab scare. According to the Press Association, Rees-Mogg has said:

I apologise to Dr Nicholl for the comparison with Dr Wakefield. I have the utmost respect for all of the country’s hardworking medical professionals and the work they do in caring for the people of this country.

The government is working closely with the NHS, industry and distributors to help ensure the supply of medicine and medical products remains uninterrupted once we leave the EU on 31 October, whatever the circumstances.

Peregrina · 05/09/2019 22:29

By the sound of it, Rees-Mogg has been shamed into it.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 05/09/2019 22:30

By the sound of it, Rees-Mogg has been shamed into it.

I bet Nanny had words Grin

pumkinspicetime · 05/09/2019 22:31

It is legal - nationally and internationally - to Brexit

It is legal. The government is legally asset stripping me of my citizenship without my consent.
I'm going to keep legally objecting to this.

tobee · 05/09/2019 22:31

I fucking hate public apologies like that. Angry

Icantreachthepretzels · 05/09/2019 22:35

Exactly pumkin

BigChocFrenzy · 05/09/2019 22:35

Major was the very rare Tory PM - rare in any party - who came from a non privileged background.
He left school at 16 and was later unemployed for a while

Most PMs have been posh gits
Some folk now sneer at how wc MPs talk - if anything, we are going backwards in soical mobility

James Melville@JamesMelville

Britain has always had a peculiar trait of forelock tugging towards the faux-politeness and insincere good manners of influential upper class public figures.

It’s all an act of manipulation.

See through the veneer and what’s left isn’t very pleasant.
#BorisJohnson
#JacobReesMogg

BigChocFrenzy · 05/09/2019 22:36

Nanny gave JRM a good spanking ?

chomalungma · 05/09/2019 22:37

People like Rees - Mogg, Michael Gove, Dominic Cummings and others are natural targets for a campaign that targets their attitudes and lack of empathy towards areas that are really important to people.

There is so much ammunition out there - if I was Labour, I would be focusing my persuasive ads on their attitudes and the importance of the NHS, education, the care system, everyday items like the cost of food...

Margaret Thatcher knew the price of milk. I bet Rees - Mogg, Gove and Cummings have no idea. They don't know how long it takes to see a GP. The level of crime, the cost of affordable housing.

These are the areas Labour need to work on. The privilege of the Tories...and God knows they have got enough ammunition so far.

Johnson and Cummings will be doing that. But it's votes that are needed and even though there are many people who want No Deal Brexit, there are many people who have far more important worries - such as health, education and social care.

DeRigueurMortis · 05/09/2019 22:37

Another one to chime in on the Major speech.

That's what a statesperson sounds like. Measured, factual, dignified.

Compare and contrast to BJ today.

Sadly is doesn't matter.

BJ supports (and Brexit Party supporters) aren't watching Major.

They're on FB and Twitter, reading the Daily Mail with the picture of BJ in front of the police saying he'll die before he goes to the EU and they are cheering him on.

Every failure, mistake, poor showing, lost vote is the fault of the "remoaners" and parliament not adhering to the will of the people.

As Red has expressed so eloquently, it's all about the optics.....

Belindabelle · 05/09/2019 22:38

Question Time anyone.

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 05/09/2019 22:38

Ok. I’m confused again.

My understanding is that the Kinnock amendment was about voting on the WA that was agreed at the talks between Labour and Theresa May, rather than TM’s original withdrawal agreement. So it has the concessions Labour got - including the confirmatory vote? Is that not correct?

Just read that very mealy-mouthed apology from JRM for Dr Nichols.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 05/09/2019 22:39

Margaret Thatcher knew the price of milk

Fucking crone took mine away from me [anger]Grin

Peregrina · 05/09/2019 22:39

Most of the time Rees-Mogg and Johnson have got away with such boorish behaviour. It's only know with Brexit getting to a crunch time that people are paying closer attention and can see what they are really like.

SwedishEdith · 05/09/2019 22:40

This is Dr Nicholl on College Green with a megaphone (assuming this is him).

twitter.com/ProducerOllie/status/1169652589241278466?s=20

chomalungma · 05/09/2019 22:41

BJ supports (and Brexit Party supporters) aren't watching Major

Trump has his core supporters. Those who are loyal.
But his support has been going down.

There will always be a hard core group who Johnson can focus on.

But there are many others who are persuadable and who have other worries.

Opposition parties need to work on them.

BigChocFrenzy · 05/09/2019 22:43

For our media expert @red :

Sun editorials Scotland vs England
"Boz booted again" vs "Corbyn clucks up Brexit"

James Melville@JamesMelville

Compare and contrast the Sun newspaper in Scotland and England.

Two very different editorials to reflect two countries with very different political attitudes.

Westminstenders: Skullduggery Fatigue
JustAnotherPoster00 · 05/09/2019 22:45

How do you fight both sides of the propoganda war BCF?