Westminstenders: Game On?

[RedToothBrush]

Johnson has had prorogation approved by the Queen.

There has been widespread outrage and horror both in the UK and in Europe. Johnson has ripped up the principle of Liberal democracy even if constitutionally what he has done is legal. In shredding convention and the 'gentlemans agreement' of understanding we teeter on the edge of democratic collapse.

Talk is tha Dominic Cummings is persuing a game theory principle of deliberately putting us on collision course with the EU. The idea being that they will blink first because the alternative of what will happen is just too awful for them to allow. The idea is to force others to make the moves whilst Johnson appears principled and strong, even without a proper strategy and plan for a deal.

And there is the rub. Despite all the Talk of no deal, at some point a deal MUST be made, regardless of whether its before or after 31st October. There is no sense of what that could be and how it could be done. And then there's the prospect of a US deal which suffers from the same lack of tangibility.

All there is, is how things look for a General Election. Nothing else.

Johnson is pitching for an election with no sense of what's needed for Brexit - including the legislation needed for no deal. Not to forget that Cummings, strategist that he is, apparently isn't here for the long haul, only being contracted until 31st October, when he goes for surgery he postponed to take on this job.

So what's the plan for Johnson Post Cummings? Or is he going to do even more 'winging it'.

Meanwhile there's an awful lot of moderate Tory MPs getting very nervous and already failing to stick to the Cummings script.

Johnson, until there is an election is going to firmly blow hot and cool, trying to play to the hopes and fears of leavers and remainers to keep them hanging on to hope and the notion that x or y will happen, when x and y can't possibly both happen because they are completely opposing strategies. Hope leads us blindly to stumble like fools into his trap and to win his reelection.

Next week looks very bumpy indeed. Chances are this thread won't make it past Saturday...

listening to Stranglers, Specials, and Clash ; some of the lyrics have not dated all, particularly "Ghost Town"

The question us whether Corbyn would agree to a GE, or be pressured into it with accuastions of cowardice

Especially after No Deal, he would come under great media pressure by the media, blaming him for BJ not being able to get bills througn

However, it would be wiser to keep BJ on a strict leash, unable to roll back the welfare state like the ERG want, or Cummings even more batshit plans

After 6 months, or a year, of No Deal, the public should be ale to see what a shitshow No Deal is
and the Tories should start to plummet

Trump is fine. Nothing at all wrong with him ever and no one would dare say it either. How he got hold of the Twitter machine is a miracle I tells ya!

But maybe because the Prez elections are next year, things are beginning to be said. And it will be built upon slowly but surely.

Would be very ironic if UK leaves the EU to align itself with what they believe might be Trump, but it could be someone else entirely. I'm waiting for that!

William Kedjanyi@KeejayOV2

People are literally marching on Buckingham Palace.
Honestly incredible

Video

I think it will depend on the timing of when a GE would end up being - which is where I think BlowJob Cummings has been very clever in his war gaming.

But he might have been too clever.

If the timing of the GE would end up inevitably meaning a No Deal Brexit, because 31 October would be during the in this case required prorogation period, I think enough Labour MPs would not fall in to the trap.

But I'm sure that Starmer, Grieve, Letwin, Major, Clarke, Soubry, Blackwood, Sturgeon, Swinson, Heseltine, Lucas, Cooper et al have also been wargaming (note: I didn't include Corbyn in that list! ).

Haven't seen the march to Buck Palace before now. How wonderful.

Her Maj is in Scotland though. Still, it is very symbolic. Even the Monarchy is not without blame here for the travesty of prorogation. If the video is true.

Not saying it isn't, but has MSM reported on this yet?

They did go towards Buckingham Palace, and did disperse peacefully.

The whole day was extra ordinarily peaceful and cheery by all accounts.

Leavers and remainers were on these marches, and I saw that JC spoke in Glasgow alongside SNP, Lib Dems and Greens. Protests certainly took place in many areas which used to be 'leave'. People who came were from all political backgrounds.

Excellent policing in London and elsewhere, again, by all accounts too.

For another 5 yrs
He's just closed parliament. Elections would go to. They usually do in this type of situation with this sort of pm.

Elections would go to. They usually do in this type of situation with this sort of pm.

Absolutely, they did in War time. late DH had to wait 5 extra years before he had his first vote just after VE day. Johnson just has to declare it's a civil emergency and cancel elections. But if he does that, the world will see that democracy in the UK has died.

What's to stop any other/future Government from proroguing like this in times of trouble for such a Government?

Her Maj or her successor will just nod and sign on the dotted lign.

That is the issue now. Well for me anyway. Once the precedent is set it is game on now.

How awful really.

@Outsomnia, yep thats the issue with a constitution that isnt written. once somethig has been done ONCE, it sorts of set things in stone :(

Oh gawd I hadn't thought of it like that.

Any updates on the MEPs EU rule of investigation? I know it won't solve anything but I want Johnson and co under the microscope.

Is it beyond the realms of possibility do you think that bojo goes full on dictator anx the EU suspend our membership?

imo, an elected UK president would be under a similar constraint to the Queen:

When there is no written Constitution explicitly forbidding such proroguing, laying down exactly u nder what circumstances and for how long prorogue may be used,
then a President couldn't forbid it either, when requested by the PM

However, the Tories have managed to make many question whether we need a monarchy:

Lewis Goodall@lewisgoodall

And so those saying they shouldn’t be marching on the palace because she had no choice miss the point.

The problem for the monarchy is that in making the Queen do this
the govt has adverted to her powerlessness
and made many reconsider the advantages of an elected head

The govt can’t just protect her from the political views of people who agree with them.
They must protect her from politics completely.

Ie the govt must protect the Queen from all controversy. even in circs where they believe they are doing something right;

if the reaction from large sections of the public is negative and will (rightly or wrongly) consider her a part of that decision,
they should not do it.

Interestingly less downbeat

www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-boris-johnson-parliament-prorogue-no-deal-suspend-a9086021.html

Btw Trump refused press access to the G7 meal.

He has not been seen eating/drinking in public for some time...

He nearly fell down some stairs (into bojo!) At the G7 too.

It's so, so obvious when you look.

Icantreachthepretzels we must have been standing very close to each other as I was close to the little scuffle at the Leeds rally too: I should have brought my red toothbrush!

I was actually hoping for more people to show up, and we couldn't hear much of the speeches, but I'm glad we showed our faces and am pleased that there were so many different protests all over the UK and beyond.

Is it beyond the realms of possibility do you think that bojo goes full on dictator anx the EU suspend our membership
I may be wrong, but I think I read that it is in the EU's gift to terminate it before Oct 31st?

This is why we are doing what we are doing with the peaceful anti Prorogation Protests.

The whole point is to encourage and give confidence to scared stressed MPs to do the right thing this week while they still can.

I'm still astonished that David Gauke has turned intothe Che Guevara of Chorleywood.

@Myriade

I agree.

An unwritten Constitution relies on precedent. And if it is not challenged, it is ok. Very scary in these times, and will carry on down the road too.. That is my concern.

During WW2, all major parties agreed to suspend GEs and in return, all participated in a GNU for the duration.

If any govt unilaterally suspends GEs, then it would literally be an illegal dictatorship, condemned by all democratic govts around the world
(unless the country has almost been wiped out by WMDs or an Extinction Event)

Constitutionally, the Monarch would have step in to forbid such an illegal action
That is her duty and since she is head of the armed forces, she should be able to enforce her will in this matter

The problem with ths current prorogation is that it does not appear illegal under the Consitution, merely an immoral abuse of power.

imo, if there was a clear public majority against the govt and especially against Brexit, the Queen would have stepped in
However, with half the country still demanding Brexit - and who would turn on the monarchy & Parliament - she doesn't dare for fear of civil war

woman

"My enemy's enemy is my friend...."

Cross posting from the stashing thread, this has me dumbfounded!

inews.co.uk/news/brexit/brexit-get-ready-campaign-launch-latest-protest/

(Warning - Big pic of Michael Gove for the more squeamish!)

But honestly, T-shirts and mugs with Get Ready for Brexit???!!