Westminstenders: Game On?

[RedToothBrush]

Johnson has had prorogation approved by the Queen.

There has been widespread outrage and horror both in the UK and in Europe. Johnson has ripped up the principle of Liberal democracy even if constitutionally what he has done is legal. In shredding convention and the 'gentlemans agreement' of understanding we teeter on the edge of democratic collapse.

Talk is tha Dominic Cummings is persuing a game theory principle of deliberately putting us on collision course with the EU. The idea being that they will blink first because the alternative of what will happen is just too awful for them to allow. The idea is to force others to make the moves whilst Johnson appears principled and strong, even without a proper strategy and plan for a deal.

And there is the rub. Despite all the Talk of no deal, at some point a deal MUST be made, regardless of whether its before or after 31st October. There is no sense of what that could be and how it could be done. And then there's the prospect of a US deal which suffers from the same lack of tangibility.

All there is, is how things look for a General Election. Nothing else.

Johnson is pitching for an election with no sense of what's needed for Brexit - including the legislation needed for no deal. Not to forget that Cummings, strategist that he is, apparently isn't here for the long haul, only being contracted until 31st October, when he goes for surgery he postponed to take on this job.

So what's the plan for Johnson Post Cummings? Or is he going to do even more 'winging it'.

Meanwhile there's an awful lot of moderate Tory MPs getting very nervous and already failing to stick to the Cummings script.

Johnson, until there is an election is going to firmly blow hot and cool, trying to play to the hopes and fears of leavers and remainers to keep them hanging on to hope and the notion that x or y will happen, when x and y can't possibly both happen because they are completely opposing strategies. Hope leads us blindly to stumble like fools into his trap and to win his reelection.

Next week looks very bumpy indeed. Chances are this thread won't make it past Saturday...

Bercow used to be a rightwing Tory, but then he married a socialist and seemed to drift over to have many Labour views, outside the HoC

The referendum has moved the Overton window much more to the right than during even the Thatcher era.
imo a reincarnated Thatcher would not be on the currentTory hard right, but in the Tory party centre, probably being condemned by the right

The nihilism in the Tory mainstream is a startling development:

wanting to tear down many British institutions, heedless of economic damage, "fuck business",
even showing hostility to those members of the monarchy who highlight climate change

Nihilism used to belong only on the far left

It is totally against the ethos of "conserving" - which has always meant moving only very carefully, if at all, away from the status quo

I can only remember as far back as Thatcher but I think that felt a bit nihilistic too - a constant sense from government that people are out to cheat the system and that society is about to disintegrate because of low morals.

Perhaps in the past Conservatives were paternalistic and cautious, but not in my memory.

It is totally against the ethos of "conserving" - which has always meant moving only very carefully, if at all, away from the status quo

Well, yes. Except the only "conserving" the Conservative party was ever going to "conserve" was the wealth and privilege of the 1% or so of landed gentry.

I'm vaguely reminded of the "democratic" in all so many country names as a clear indicator they aren't.

Which for some reason reminds me of the Fry & Laurie sketch about tobacconists ...

Maybe the difference is that although Thatcher wiped out entire industries, I can’t remember people thinking she was only doing it because she was involved in some kind of stock market/currency scam.

I can only remember as far back as Thatcher but I think that felt a bit nihilistic too - a constant sense from government that people are out to cheat the system and that society is about to disintegrate because of low morals

"there is no such thing as society" - M. Thatcher.

there is no such thing as society" - M. Thatcher

Which had an absolutely tragic irony when one looks at her final years; living alone, ill with dementia, in a hotel, albeit a posh one with 'staff'.

Thatcher had no qualms about letting the poor suffer and the Tory party has always been about preserving wealth for those who have it

However, they regarded preserving the institutions, including the monarchy, as an essential part of this

The nihilists want to tear everything down, which means many businesses and wealthy people losing too

They are appealing to the street,
continually pushing "rebellion against the elite" which Tories have traditionally been terrified of arousing, because of course they are the elite

and no Thatcherite would ever have said "fuck business" and survived in the old Tory party

What we are seeing is the far right nihilism spread by Bannon from the USA - he described himself as a Leninist

It may all be an extreme reaction against feeling they lost the culture war in the 60s and this is their only chance to reverse things, so they want to destroy everything

They are aping what Farage and the far right say, except they omit the condemnation of perpetual rule by "liblabcon"

So far, they've successfully stolen many of Farage's clothes
but we saw in the EP elections that their voters otherwise abandon them

I'm by no means convinced Cummings is a mastermind here;
he's just an opportunistic wierdo who jumped on the bandwagon

imo, it is driven by a majority of Tory voters being radicalised by hard right authoritarianism views

• mainly by decades of hard right media whipping them up -

so the party has followed, to keep its voters

God help me, I find it hard to muster sympathy for Thatcher and her pathetic end.

Ditto Trump and his complete disintegration due to FLD.

That neither had/have loved ones who give a crap is perhaps the saddest part of it all, really.

Trump's family will keep drugging him/limiting his appearances/cancelling trips until something gives. Collapse? Aspiration?

The illness progression means that by end of next year he will probably be in a wheelchair.

Which means he will escape prosecution for his many crimes.

Thatcher lived in luxury to her dying day. Unlike most oaps with dementia.

So. Yeah. Cry me a fucking river.

I got told off last week by my dad for talking about similarities between Trump and my mum

....he's right. It's not fair on my mum who was a fabulous person before her accident and the resulting fronto-temporal dementia.

Interesting about the prediction that by next year Trump may be in a wheel chair. It took about 2 years for mum to go from being unsteady to not being able to walk (and not much longer than that to die, but that's partly because we took the decision to stop bullying her to eat).

I have no idea how this has passed me by. Trump has a diagnosis? Or is it speculation?

If diagnosed, sympathies to anybody with such a condition, but hth can he be allowed to continue in post?

Pretty 😔💐

Trump has had issues with balance for some time now.

Some U.S. Drs are giving him til 2024. Some less....

oh check out tomjchicago on Twitter.

Eye opening, scary stuff.

Or you can just look at campaign speeches in 2015 to the pathetic show outside the WH yesterday.

Lots of vids on youtube.

The jerks, facial tics and lack of balance is quite clear to see.

Thanks: though not sure how much more scary stuff I can absorb right now 😩

I know what you mean....but I'm sort of horrifically fascinated by Trump's rapid decline and how ao many WH staff will be implicated when the inevitable happens. And the Drs who passed him fit.

His speech is slurring now.

He won't be able to do rallies etc for the 2020 campaign without huge doses of things like Levdopa or adderall.

He has been seen with white powder on his upper lip and he sniffs a lot...

Haven't heard any official diagnosis of Trump (but would never expect to – even as a private citizen he would never have admitted to being anything less than a perfect specimen).

The speculation that he's unwell seems to be gaining traction.

Some of that may be political: former supporters becoming disappointed and starting to "notice" things they were previously prepared to overlook.

He's also put in enough bad days now, balanced by too few good days, to build up a picture.

But my impression is also that his language use is deteriorating.

It's the local parties that select candidates for seats. I remember, a good few years back, the Guardian doing an article on how very right wing the new intake of Tory MPs was. They're the ones behind Brexit.

Be interesting to see how/if they stage manage his need for a wheelchair compared to FDR

Any more thoughts on my question re calling a g.e out of 5 year fixed term needing a commons vote? My dd seems to say a 2/3 majority is needed?

Yy, toobee. A two thirds majority in favour of a GE or a no confidence vote followed by nobody else being able to form a majority.

So I'd love it if Corbyn and chums didn't vote for a GE. But, I think they might go down that route because it's hard wired to do so. Obviously, government, press etc would say that the opposition were chicken etc but they'd still have to deal with the reality of their majority!