The Brexit Arms

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Back of the net Boris!!
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And so it begins...

The Brexit Arms has reopened its doors for the final countdown to Brexit.

Only 64 days to go!!! 🍾🥂🎉

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With you there time4, I have always despised Farage, but I have never been so angry and despondent with the current shower of absolute fuckwits ignoring my legitimate democratic vote, made in good faith and in full belief that it would be enacted as promised and later ratified as such in parliament.

For as much as I despise Farage, the Idea of a Corbyn led puppet government for Mcdonnell and his band of utter lunatics absolutely horrifies me and I lose sleep over it. I have read 1984 and am not about to put my X on a ballot for INGSOC circa 2019. NEVER going to happen.

So, with that said, and when the realisation dawned yesterday that I would in all likelihood not see my free democratic vote enacted as promised, I held my nose and joined the Brexit Party supporters and made a donation, a small price to pay, to have a shot at them getting this process back to centering the people that showed up like never before to vote for it. I dont want a farage government, but if a coalition is what it takes to see the result properly enacted, then so be it.

Just a note for anyone who wants to bombard me with all the usual questions and insults etc... save your breath, I have been here since the beginning, and bought that T-shirt repeatedly, contending with smallfox and their ilk just paying no attention whatsoever to my answers and constantly insulting me and many others who gave their time and fair reasoned arguments. The echochamber was impenetrable so many of us just gave up. (Brava/Bravo to all those who had the patience to stick it out!)

It’s not worth it, just respect my vote, as I respect yours and move along.

🥂 to all drinking here and sorry for the long slightly garbled rant, this is my first post here on the matter in a looong time!

Fedupcitizen - the trouble is, your "legitimate democratic vote" wasn't so legitimate was it? The referendum was conducted unlawfully and the government has conceded that, had the vote been binding rather than advisory, it would have been set aside.

And yet on Monday evening Johnson stood in front of No 10 and told the nation he didn’t want an election?

He didn't but in light of the shambles of the last 24/48 hrs there aren't really any other options

JC has been wanting a GE for three years, it's all he's wanted and Brexit was really just a side issue, he's got his chance now so let's see.

I have always said a GE was the last thing we needed on top of everything else that's going on but now I'm all for it, let's have one and the sooner the better. Unfortunately it's going to be just like the EU Ref and all the s**t that went with that all over again.

Fedupcitizen I don't think we will be the only ones thinking like this. smallfox that's a poster that made an impression for all the wrong reasons

Oops bold should be first paragraph not second.

And yet on Monday evening Johnson stood in front of No 10 and told the nation he didn’t want an election?

It was enshrined in Law in parliament after being voted through the house, they then voted for article 50 to be passed. It was a democratic vote. It became binding when they agreed to make it such. Now the hypocrites harp on about the use of a fully legal process as anti democratic. What an utter crock of steaming bullshit, they don’t want to stop no deal, they want to stop brexit!!! I and 17.4 million “thick racist gammon” can see through it and are angrier than ever before.

They hobbled may, they are hobbling Boris and they will continue to hobble anyone who tries to uphold the vote that the british public undertook in good faith. They don’t care what the public want even though they said they did, at that moment, democracy died. If you don’t see the danger of that precedent then it’s not for me to convince you, you are entitled to your own view point, as I am mine, but don’t be surprised that the 17.4 mil disenfranchised voters are very very angry and are eager to voice that.

This obfuscation is a disgrace and an embarrassment for a country that has long touted itself as fair and democratic on the world stage. The hypocrisy is breathtaking and I will not stand back and just accept it because they or you tell me I should.

time4 can't you not see that Farage doesn't care whether the UK leaves the EU? That in fact it would suit him better if it didn't because he could hold onto his job?

That's it in a nutshell fedupcitizen - I thought you summed it up quite well with this bit:

What an utter crock of steaming bullshit .....

merrymouse I could ask you are you happy that Farage is there representing the interests of the U.K.as a Brexit Party MEP (along with the other 25) for the next 5 years if we remain? I voted him in and I can also vote him out.

He didn't but in light of the shambles of the last 24/48 hrs there aren't really any other options

Come off it, of course Johnson has always wanted a GE - how else is he going to assure himself of 5 years in power?

That’s fine then - step aside Jeremy and put your money where your mouth is.

That’s fine then - step aside Jeremy and put your money where your mouth is.

Corbyn will - but when it suits him and not when it suits Johnson.

Why would the Opposition enable the Government? It’s not their job.

"The hypocrisy is breathtaking and I will not stand back and just accept it because they or you tell me I should."
While you are blathering on , can you solve the NI border issue. Because I can.

Fedupcitizen - you appear to blame remainers for May’s leave agreement being voted down when you say -

“They hobbled may, they are hobbling Boris and they will continue to hobble anyone who tries to uphold the vote that the british public undertook in good faith”

However, wasn’t it the hard right no deal Brexiteers (beloved of Farage and the Brexit party) who shot it dead in the water? Half our current cabinet (kind estimate) voted to delay and thwart a leaving agreement in parliament in the last year, none of them cut from remainer cloth. You can’t have it both ways.

Typical... “whilst you are blathering on” clearly nothing here changes. Did I say I could solve NI? I am a voter, here to argue that my democratic vote is in danger of not being upheld, I don’t profess to be a negotiator or an expert on the matter of Northern Ireland and accept my limitations in that respect. It’s not for me to solve that, anymore than it is for me to directly discuss and negotiate trade agreements with Macron et al.

Fact. I was given a vote in what I believed was a referendum that would be accepted as binding.

Fact. That good faith democratic vote is in danger.

Fact. I and millions are exceptionally angry about that.

Fact. I never professed to have answers to N.I, isn’t that what we are paying these waffling buffoons in parliament to work out?

I don’t want and never said I wanted anything “both ways”, I want my vote upheld without smoke and mirrors. Simple. I did plenty of my own research and decided to vote leave having already been uncomfortable with the EU for many years. You did your research and decided to vote remain (I assume) based on your belief in the EU. I respect your participation and right to an opinion in the referendum and your own deductive reasoning for your decision, why can you not accept mine and 17.4mil others?
And why do Parliamentarians insist on ignoring the public at every turn? Why does that not concern you? What precedent does it set for the future?

fedupcitizen

Because it is asking for it both ways supporting a hard right no deal Brexit (which is what I assume you want given your support for Farage and the Brexit party) whilst harping on about how your will hasn’t been respected in parliament when it is the very selfsame hard right Brexiteers that shot that deal dead in the water because it wasn’t “pure” enough.

From the FT:

Along with demands on the backstop, Mr Frost has also called for a trade agreement that would allow the UK to break free of EU regulations in areas such as social and environmental standards. The demand reneges on promises made by Theresa May’s government and has emerged as another stumbling bloc in the talks over the past week.

Those are your “environmental and social standards” fedupcitizen. The very ones that protect your food standards, make sure your waters clean and don’t cover your kid’s toys with lead paint. You and me are being sold down the river.

Well, I was never convinced those Food standards were exactly being upheld during the Horsemeat scandal, wasn’t that same horsemeat imported from Europe?

We are not going to suddenly become some toxic Nuclear wasteland overnight, Yet more Hyperbole, we can as the people, lobby the government directly to increase standards and vote with our feet if they don’t. Theoretically it gives us more control in the environmental agenda to be autonomous in this regard, rather than waiting for the lawmakers in Europe to set the rules.

This is the purpose of a democracy that supposedly listens to it’s people, so that we can supposedly have our say in these matters. If the precedent of openly ignoring us is set as seems to be happening, then these matters become much more difficult to implement and the precedent is set for a future of being ignored not only in the hall of mirrors that is the EU, but in our own parliament now too. I want more control, not less, so in principle I have no problem with drawing up our own environmental plans.

Theoretically it gives us more control in the environmental agenda to be autonomous in this regard, rather than waiting for the lawmakers in Europe to set the rules.

Yeah, and the UK has been so good at upholding the existing environmental legislation (Urban Wastewater Directive anyone?).

And “lawmakers in Europe” included the UK with a seat at the top table - these were not laws foisted upon us but ones that the UK actively brought forward and shaped.

And lo, is that a mad cow I hear softly in the distance continuity error? I knew there was a reason we had such a good reputation for ou food as opposed to the awful continent either awful cheese and charcuterie.

..”.with their”,

Newspapers have been out on the streets talking to voters in a labour held seat, that voted to leave, just like we said they are saying they will vote Tory for the first time ever just so they can go.
So rather than Tory voting labour to go, you have leavers vote for the party who will do as they ask.
So Remain have to vote anything but Tory.
Leave will vote for whom ever will take them out and these are people who will go to the poles.
Then you have the millions who didn't bother who are discussed by the way our Parliament have refused to do as they promised , these people will vote Tory .
The people who marched are Remainers, so are already counted.
The youth will just think JC lied and not get out of bed.....
Oh and the over 55 we vote, we care about promises being kept, 70% will vote leave to they will vote Tory to get this done.
So Boris could get a massive majority.

IIRC wasn’t CJD/Mad Cow disease a Europewide problem? And weren’t we then one of the first of those countries to introduce and implement restrictions on the age at which cattle could be sold for meat among other self imposed regulations?

E-coli in German Salad anyone?

I’m not suggesting we had these important laws “foisted” on us, and I am not suggesting they were not important laws. But it is disingenuous to suggest we were some kind of cesspit of diseased food and everywhere else in europe is/was was a panacea of safe food standards in comparison.

I merely say, that governing our own laws in these areas, gives power back to the people and allows us to lobby for tighter regulations going forward. I fail to see the down side?

Looks like even the PM's own brother doesn't want to drink in this pub.

I merely say, that governing our own laws in these areas, gives power back to the people and allows us to lobby for tighter regulations going forward. I fail to see the down side?

Mainly because I don’t believe the UK will tighten up regulations or even fully enforce existing legislation where there is a cost to business.

Look at the Southern Water wastewater fine just this summer - and consider how much profit the shareholders have hoovered up instead of investing in infrastructure.

Why do you think a large proportion of the cases where the UK was taken to court by the ECJ was for exactly this?

And it’s 20 years of working in environmental management that informs my beliefs.

The EU have said they are continuing their no deal planning the European Commission proposed using the European Solidarity Fund, normally used to help victims of natural disasters in the EU, to soften the financial blow for some EU countries.