The Brexit Arms

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Back of the net Boris!!
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And so it begins...

The Brexit Arms has reopened its doors for the final countdown to Brexit.

Only 64 days to go!!! 🍾🥂🎉

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But @howabout, the vast majority of people who voted Leave live in Scotland, England and Wales, not Northern Ireland. They had no right to say, "NI can just unite with the Republic, job done." It's not their choice! If they really thought it was that simple, they didn't understand what they were voting for.

Apparently the new legislation is open to interpretation and Cummings has his own interpretation of it
Interesting that Boris could go to prison for flouting law, however flouting law to uphold a democratic vote on largest turnout for any vote ever

Thats not true, there have been GE's that have been higher and do i have to remind you that the vote was advisory only and DC had no legal basis whatsoever to promise to uphold the result.

I cannot fathom how anyone who believes in democracy thinks this is acceptable!l?

Its quite ironic that you complain about flouting democracy whilst no doubt cheering Cummings on, an unelected advisor, who holds our PM in the palm of his hand.

I’m totally past caring as to whether what happens next is democratic. Leaving the EU will hurt me, my family, friends, the UK and EU. I don’t understand why anyone voted to leave, not because how they voted but that they don’t know why they did and that they don’t understand the damage ahead.

Thats not true, there have been GE's that have been higher and do i have to remind you that the vote was advisory only and DC had no legal basis whatsoever to promise to uphold the result.

So we have created a legal bill based on a referendum that had no legal basis in the first place .

Parker why do you think Frank field wrote... Vote leave to support the poor?

I'm sorry your friends might be hurt but millions of UK citizens have been hurt by the eu.
I know Remainers on here have called Frank field vicious names but I see him as one of the most human of Labour mps.

Re referendum... We moved on past that argument years ago

However its really interesting that apparently there is loop hole in this new rushed legislation to stop brexit.

One hopes so. It can't be enforced.

You may find (and I’m not a legal bod) that you would be on shaky ground trying to actually bring someone (BJ) to account in a court of law for ignoring it.

I'm sorry your friends might be hurt but millions of UK citizens have been hurt by the eu

So much so he now wants the UK to have a Norway style agreement with the EU.

So SM and CU (to solve NI/GFA) paying in, FOM, adherence regs and rules & no say on these either.... so basically in the EU lol!

I've often thought Frank is not well and should step down, i liked his ideas on welfare reform but he doesn't appear to be quite so sharp of mind now.

Millions of EU money has come into the UK into more deprived areas. The less well off will suffer the most if the UK leaves the EU.

EU money has funded projects to boost local economies and infrastructure including the Eden Project and the redevelopment of Liverpool Docks.

How exactly are the UK’s poorest going to benefit from leaving the EU? Airbus have warned that they would have to start shutting down UK plants, Philips is closing it’s only UK factory and moving operations to the Netherlands and the car industry is diverting production to plants outside the UK.

I'm sorry your friends might be hurt but millions of UK citizens have been hurt by the eu.

Name one example of a UK citizen hurt by the EU?

The point here Bear is that Frank Field himself has rowed back from his irrational dislike of the EU

Parker I know, I remember people interviewed and told that by reporters.

Someone scoffed : oh yes that theatre I can't afford to go too, oh yes that culture center I don't feel comfortable in

Or.. Oh yes, our own money, given back to us stamped with eu on it.

Frank field wrote a very moving plea during the referendum bear, I'm surprised you've not seen it? I know it was posted many times on here.
His ward in Birkenhead is really poor and he felt the poor people in his community had suffered further, by the many poor people from Eastern European counties settling there. He said something about those at the bottom having very little.. And now having to compete with non UK citizens.

Vote leave for the poor. I'll try and find the link, but charities trying to help were collapsing under the strain etc.

It all happened so quickly.

EU money has not just been for cultural events but Swansea University's new Bay Campus (£40 million of EU money), The dualling of the Heads of the Valleys road (£79 million), town centre improvements in areas including Merthyr Tydfil, Pontypridd and Llanelli (£80 million), a centre for high-end research in Swansea University (£31.1 million), Cardiff University Brain Research and Imaging Centre (£16.2 million).

According to the Welsh Government EU funding has in a five year period supported 229,110 people to gain qualifications, helped 72,700 people into work and created 36,970 (gross) jobs and 11,925 enterprises

How exactly is leaving the EU going to make things worse?

@Autumnintheair

Migrants from the EU contribute £2,300 more to the exchequer each year in net terms than the average UK adult. I know I’m one of them.

@jasjas1973
re Frank Field: 'i liked his ideas on welfare reform but he doesn't appear to be quite so sharp of mind now'.

I think it unfair to denigrate one of the most compassionate, ethical and socially aware MP's of our generation as `not quite so sharp of mind now' because he is sticking up for his constituents who have not benefitted from the EU, a pretty low blow.

And re. previous exchange on Portugal: the Portuguese authorities make very flexible tax deals with wealthy individuals (such as Madonna and my frothing-at-the-mouth Remainer friend's family), which has the happy result of incentivising wealthy individuals to settle in Portugal. I've no problem with this. My problem is with wealthy tax avoiders benefitting from the largesse of hard-pressed British tax payers who are the ones paying for Portugal's shiny new roads and dazzling infrastructure (while having to endure crowded roads and trains).

Life ain't fair and the EU is making it even less so.

When Remainers make an argument for staying in the Blessed Union it is pretty self-interested - as in the case of my tax avoiding friend. When working people don't agree they are told `they didn't know what they were voting for'.

time4chocolate

Think you’ll find that the PM deliberately breaking the law is misconduct in public office.

And Cummings egging him on would be conspiracy to commit misconduct in public office.

And malfeasance in public office could prove to be personally very costly to Johnson and any conspirators.

Oooh going back to my earlier post, it seems now that there is actually talk going around about the legality/enforceability of the legal ‘no deal’ bill.

Maybe that was why a pact was made so quickly in the HoL - some may had already twigged this? The plot thickens.

The Benn Bill is getting the Queens Assent on Monday so will be legal. Why wouldn’t it - the process through the two Houses is no different from other Bills.

Think you’ll find that the PM deliberately breaking the law is misconduct in public office

A law that was made on something that doesn’t have a legal basis - grey area I would say.

And malfeasance in public office could prove to be personally very costly to Johnson and any conspirators

Maybe they might think it a price worth paying - I don’t know.

@FreshFreesias

Frank F is old now, its perfectly reasonable to question his thinking, the last interview i watched with him, he was not especially coherent.
As i said, he has changed his tune on eu membership, supporting a Norway deal, which is pretty much being in the eu but with no say.

Portugal has a Golden visa scheme for residency but it's not about avoiding tax.
Before you carry on arguing with me on Portugal, i know a lot about the place.

I note you've not mentioned that poor cleaner.

time4chocolate

Not sure why you think there is no legal basis? Under Article 50 the UK will leave the EU on 31/10 by automatic operation of the law.

And, oh yes, misfeasance (not malfeasance as I posted upthread) could be very, very costly for Johnson - there would be grounds for bringing damages claims in tort.

Think Cummings and his Leave buddies are clutching at straws - or else he’s happy to throw Johnson under the bus (oh the irony) in the hope that it might tick down the clock.

I’m totally past caring as to whether what happens next is democratic. Leaving the EU will hurt me, my family, friends, the UK and EU

Agree. My husband says it's dangerous to disregard democracy. We've had a couple of "discussions" about it. He says we voted leave so we have to leave. I say we voted leave but there is no mandate for a no deal Brexit and the most democratic solution would be to stay in the EEA - ie Norway solution as it is a compromise given the closeness of the referendum result. And that if you have someone like Boris who is happy to disregard convention and democratic norms, you have to fight fire with fire.

His ward in Birkenhead is really poor and he felt the poor people in his community had suffered further, by the many poor people from Eastern European counties settling there. He said something about those at the bottom having very little.. And now having to compete with non UK citizens Birkenhead wouldn't be my choice as an outsider, why would you go there when a massively rejuvenated Liverpool is just across the river (with a lot of EU money - they voted remain) and Manchester just up the road. Have they REALLY been having to compete with EU citizens?

Amber Rudd has just resigned from the Cabinet and Tory Party. Things are getting even worse for Johnson.

Interesting that Boris could go to prison for flouting law, however flouting law to uphold a democratic vote on largest turnout for any vote ever

Leaving the EU without a deal is not upholding a democratic vote.

Was the turnout the highest ever? It wasn't that high. Wasn't it higher for the Scottish indyref?

@jasjas, Thank you for your concern over my Remainer friend’s underpaid and put upon cleaner.

I’m afraid I can’t give you any more information, except to confirm that she, like many low paid workers, hasn’t seen her pay rise for years. Yes, she works for herself but she doesn’t set her rate, the market does. I met a young Moroccan cleaner recently who was being paid a tiny amount for very long days.

London is run on slave labour. As the woeful Remoaner cried: `Who will make my coffee in Pret if we leave the EU?’

No wonder the wealthy wish to keep the status quo and the poor wish to change it.

As for your pejorative remarks on Frank Field, many parliamentarians are probably past their sharpest – Kenneth Clarke looks like he’s on his last legs. But it doesn’t mean that what they say is not worth listening to.

I am not a Portuguese accountant. All I am trying to explain, sigh, is that wealthy people are moving to Portugal to avail themselves of favourable tax deals. I know people who are doing this, good for them. They are choosing to avoid paying tax that the rest of us must pay while enjoying the benefits that our taxes provide. What I find so deeply amoral is when they weep crocodile tears about `the poor’ while they are doing so.

Many Remainer's arguments for staying in the EU are utterly self-serving yet dished up with a dollop of virtue-signalling crap.