The Brexit Arms

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Back of the net Boris!!
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And so it begins...

The Brexit Arms has reopened its doors for the final countdown to Brexit.

Only 64 days to go!!! 🍾🥂🎉

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When you have the likes of Lords Lisvane, Hennessy and O'Donnell condemning this proroguing stunt, you are well and truly condemned.

Now where are Nicky 'Woman of Principle' Morgan, and Amber 'Don't get into a car with Boris' Rudd?

Whether or not the NI issue was blasted before the referendum, we know now that it's a massive issue (among other things that have become evident since)
In the normal world, if a course of action is decided upon, and then further information reveals that this action is not wise, it is unusual to just carry on regardless. Plans are constantly monitored, changed, rerouted, even abandoned, if going ahead with the original ones are later seen to be a bad idea.
But we seem to be in a parallel universe

A sea border will lose them too many votes in future

It won't.

Unless you mean votes in parliament as it currently stands? In which case, it likely will because DUP will no doubt cease the confidence & supply

Wrt Tory votes in a GE? A sea border will have minimum effect.
No Brexit however, will decimate Tories at next GE.

Agreed
the DUP are a flash in the pan - the UUP lasted much longer
if sacrificing the DUP saves mainland UK, bring it on

But where do the story’s go dusty

Like you say, in the short term losing the DUP’s C&S loses them control

Longer terms, a sea border loses them Scotland

I agree no Brexit loses them everything

The whole thing hangs on how many Leavers actually care about the details or will just be happy with being told we’ve left

Sea border in itself doesn't lose them Scotland.

It does give the SNP more ammunition to agitate for another indyref, but in the event of another indyref the issue of a sea border with NI will not sway votes.

Bear
if all of the tabloids for a joke said "we have left, the EU no longer has any control over us"
the information lite voters wold believe it
even if nothing had really changed
because Brexit is not and never will be tangible

Sea border in itself doesn't lose them Scotland.

I challenge you to find me a Scottish Tory who would still support them in the event of an NI sea border

if all of the tabloids for a joke said "we have left, the EU no longer has any control over us" - the information lite voters wold believe it

I’ve always said we just need the Daily Mail to run a headline saying ‘We’re out’ and this would all be over

I think the Tories in Scotland are going to struggle anyway now that Ruth Davidson has gone.

Its really annoying that remoaner MPs just keep lying that all they are trying to do is stop a 'no deal'. I wish they would tell the truth so we could actually move forward. If you refuse to support a deal then opposing 'no deal' is trying to STOP Brexit.

The way Bercow is ripping up our constitution something will probably get passed next week to stop Brexit. I think Boris will be entirely justified in just ignoring it and getting us out in October. If he does he will get the support of the people in a November election.

But in putting the sea border in you are forcing part of the UK to trade differently...

Northern Ireland already has separate legislation on things like marriage and abortion, Wales and Scotland have the power to set their own income tax rates and Scotland has always had a completely different legal and education system. Devolved government means that different parts of the UK already vary hugely.

The GFA can be modified, if people want to..

The GFA was approved following a confirmatory referendum (the way referendums should work) and had 71% approval in NI and 94% approval in RoI.

A majority in NI voted to remain.

Why would they want to change the GFA to help people in England who voted to Leave?

I suppose I had hoped the lack of violence for so long would mean people turn their back on it returning and prefer to use words instead to find a way forward.

I have little respect for Arlene Foster's politics, but I have huge amounts of sympathy for the 8 year old Arlene Foster whose father was shot by the IRA in her home.

Many people in NI have similar stories, and maybe in a few generations their power will have faded. However, in the mean time they did use words and they did find a way forward. It was called the Good Friday Agreement.

I challenge you to find me a Scottish Tory who would still support them in the event of an NI sea border

Erm...

Me
Lots of folk I know

I suppose I had hoped the lack of violence for so long would mean people turn their back on it returning and prefer to use words instead to find a way forward.

Unfortunately that appears not to be the case - well for a tiny minority of people anyway, who then hold more non-violent people around them in fear.

To vote for Brexit does not mean you want to throw anyone under a bus - it really doesn't.

As a part solution to the 'border' situation at the moment I can only think that anti-terrorism measures have become a lot more sophisticated since GFA.

So if/as/when any 'terrorism' raises it's ugly head - from whatever side of the politico-religious divide it comes from - it's found and its perpertrators 'put out of action'.

Take the terrorists out of the equation and the 'border' is less of a problem straightaway.

to vote for brexit doesn't mean you want to throw anyone under a bus
It might not mean that you did when you originally voted, as many didn't know the implications.
But for anybody to still want no deal, despite knowing the consequences for Ireland??

Sock - I really don't know why other people voted the way they did - just how I did which was Leave (with a transitional Deal).

Ireland is in a very difficult position because although the UK/RoI have the CTA and GFA because RoI is an EU member they can only react to the situation as an EU member.

The border between RoI/NI therefore becomes difficult, of course it does - however I do believe that this can be negotiated through - it is only made more difficult because a very tiny number of people may undertake 'terrorist' activities because of Brexit.

However, these very few people do not prevent me from still wishing the UK extricates itself from the EU and to let these 'people of violence' become a reason why I, or anybody else, should now want to stay in the EU, gives the 'terrorists' far more power than they are due.

Erm...Me. Lots of folk I know

PMSL - so Conservative and Unionists who don’t believe in the union

Piss yourself all you want Bear

I do believe in the union, but not in a forced union - if any of the constituent parts of the UK democratically opt for independence then I also would support that.

A sea border with NI as special economic status is not, in and of itself, destroying the union.
Rather it will be the ensuant political rhetoric from SNP etc that may ultimately destroy the union.

I'm simply pointing out the fact that a border in the sea, with special economic status for NI does not piss anyone off in the grand scheme of things other than the SNP & DUP (and it's purely political for both).

It is a rather good point , if the headlines tomorrow said that we had left the EU , how many people would actually notice we hadn't ? What would change to make you realise that we hadn't . how many days, weeks, months etc would go by before you realised ? What tangible thing are you expecting to happen to make you sure we have completely and utterly left the EU ?

I do believe in the union, but not in a forced union - if any of the constituent parts of the UK democratically opt for independence then I also would support that.

So the successful vote for independence happened when?

A sea border with NI as special economic status is not, in and of itself, destroying the union. Rather it will be the ensuant political rhetoric from SNP etc that may ultimately destroy the union.

As above, who’s actually explicitly chosen this then?

It is a rather good point , if the headlines tomorrow said that we had left the EU , how many people would actually notice we hadn't ? What would change to make you realise that we hadn't . how many days, weeks, months etc would go by before you realised ? What tangible thing are you expecting to happen to make you sure we have completely and utterly left the EU ?

frumpety it has always been the case. You could tell the likes of mummmy we’ve left and this would all be over for all the difference if made to them

So the successful vote for independence happened when?

As above, who’s actually explicitly chosen this then?

Not quite sure what you're on about tbh.
I was responding to your previous posts

At no point have I ever stated either as already having happened.

But you know that...

And that is a perfect illustration of why leavers can't be arsed to bother engaging in good faith on these threads.

Because you're always looking for a 'Gotcha!' moment or an argument.

dusty you can do all the 🤔 faces you want.

The fact is the Brexit vote was never about the break up of the UK or the reunification of Ireland