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Brexit

Westminstenders: Prorogation

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 28/08/2019 11:10

Its come to this.

Boris Johnson is to ask the Queen for permission to suspend parliament.

There are several legal challenges in the system to prevent this from happening.

It is unlikely to be able to stopped and the Queen is unlikely to intervene either. To do so would expose the Monarchy directly to a political threat which could lead to the downfall of the Crown if the cards lined up. Johnson has deliberate set up the situations where if she does, he is on the 'side of the people' whilst she is on the 'side of the establishment'. If she does nothing, she might be exposed still but none action, can be spun as political neutrality.

As David Allen Green points out:
^David Allen Green @davidallengreen
This is now the realm of pure politics

No court is likely to intervene - and it is not obvious what remedy a court could even grant so as to satisfactorily resolve the matter

"Not justiciable" as judges sometimes say

As we have seen so far, the opposition have been completely outclassed when it comes to 'pure politics' partly because of tribalism, partly because they lacked the capacity to understand and imagine how bad this could get - they never thought Johnson would go this far (massive tactical mistake) and partly because they so far do not understand whats driving this and have not produced and alternative narrative and explaination to counter those social and political fractures. Indeed everything they are doing is only serving to reinforce and widen those rifts and their complete lack of self awareness has been to blame. Johnson not only sees these fractures, he understands them, knows how to exploit them and most importantly is willing to do anything to retain power.

Authoritarians are always driven by this lust for power and are won't stop for anything. Thats why they are so dangerous and why checks and balances were put into the system. The trouble is the opposition didn't read the signs and are flapping in the wind now its reached the point where they suddenly realise its too far gone to be able to do much. The runaway train is firmly off the rails.

This all comes a day after the opposition apparently have agree a strategy to oppose No Deal. Which seems to include a VoNC. Remember this will always require Tory Rebels as even working together the Opposition haven't got the numbers - especially considering there are a few Labour Brexiteers.

This is being framed as a coalition of anti-democrats (which is something of a contradiction on several levels) by the government and the Brexit Party.

They have signed a pledge to set up an alternative parliament if government does prorogue parliament. This is full on civil war era stuff aka as a full blown constitutional crisis. Its actively into dangerous terrority. And as such, we very much into talking about the very real possibility of civil unrest. This is no longer something that can be considered hyperbole.

The timetable of this would see parliament prorogued just a few days into September (next week), closed to prepare for a new Queen's Speech and returning around the 17th October remembering the crucial final EU sumit on the 17th October. A VoNC doesn't necessarily mean the government will go though. There is no legal requirement to force the government to stand down. We may yet end up with a situation of two governments claiming legitmacy at the same time in late October. Prime Ministers Corbyn and Johnson.

A GE might eventually be the result of such a constitutional crisis but we would be way past 31st October before that happens.

Would we end up with an extension in such circumstances? Well the Prime Minister has to ask for one formally from the EU and the EU have to agree to one.

The problem being, who do the EU recognise as our PM?

We also have things coming into legal effect on the 1st November which would otherwise need revoking by parliament.

Which Parliament?

Things are going to get very very messy indeed.

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Myriade · 28/08/2019 19:14

Yep unfortunatly., BJ IS good at it. He is a buffoon but an intelligent ne with the 'right' advisers behind him.

btw anyone knows who those advisors are and their relationhsip with Trump by any chance?
As DRG said, the way he behaves is textbook Trump (and it works all the same depiste the brits being oh so much better than the stupid americans that believe any words from trump) so Im wondering what school they both went to....

flouncyfanny · 28/08/2019 19:15

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

wheresmymojo · 28/08/2019 19:15

So I now have the following in my list of anti-Boris Tories:

  • Antoinette Sandbach
  • Sam Gymiah
  • Justine Greening
  • Phillip Hammond
  • David Gauke
  • The Wimbledon MP I mentioned earlier (forgotten his name)

Trying to see who else has come out against no deal and who is still quiet that we might expect to hear from...

wheresmymojo · 28/08/2019 19:17
  • Oliver Letwin
  • Antoinette Sandbach
  • Sam Gymiah
  • Justine Greening
  • Phillip Hammond
  • David Gauke
  • The Wimbledon MP I mentioned earlier (forgotten his name)
IrenetheQuaint · 28/08/2019 19:21

Rory Stewart
Stephen Hammond

AuldAlliance · 28/08/2019 19:22

interesting quotes from Matt Hancock, Amber Rudd, Andrea Leadsom and Nicki Morgan

Hancock is trying to figure out how to spin "This idea from some people that to deliver Brexit we should suspend our parliamentary democracy, that we should prorogue Parliament, that goes against everything those men wading onto those beaches fought and died for. And I will not have it. They made that sacrifice so we could create a better world and we have.” into sth that fits with his sudden new turncoaty stance. Must be tricky...

DarkAtEndOfUK · 28/08/2019 19:23

PMK on the bastion of sanity. Just caught up with today's news. Oh good god. How did it come to this?

smilethoyourheartisbreaking · 28/08/2019 19:23

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woman19 · 28/08/2019 19:25

@PaulBrandITV
Incredible scenes tonight as thousands of protestors pour onto the streets in Westminster shouting “STOP THE COUP”. Traffic has been brought to standstill. Huge huge anger.

This isn’t just the usual anti-Brexit crowd. Several people here had seen the news and messages on social media and decided to come down after work. One driver caught in the chaos started beeping his horn in support.

Protestors have now moved to Downing Street

Hoooo · 28/08/2019 19:29

Fantastic :)

wheresmymojo · 28/08/2019 19:29
  • Rory the Tory
  • Ken Clarke
  • Oliver Letwin
  • Antoinette Sandbach
  • Sam Gymiah
  • Justine Greening
  • Phillip Hammond
  • David Gauke
  • Stephen Hammond

Possible - have shared tweets being outraged or about a PV but haven't explicitly said they'll get involved:

  • Gareth Snell (suspect won't actively be involved)
  • Guto Bebb (more likely)
woman19 · 28/08/2019 19:29

Johnson on the phone to Erdogan today. Hmm

smilethoyourheartisbreaking · 28/08/2019 19:30

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woman19 · 28/08/2019 19:31

Fantastic smile
It is, and it isn't. I suspect this has been factored in/ provoked/ scripted etc.
I truly fear for us now.

DarkAtEndOfUK · 28/08/2019 19:31

I wish we were in London today. It's the first time in my life I've ever wanted to be in London. We'll be down at my city at the weekend.

For those who haven't found it yet, spread it around: www.anothereurope.org/stopthecoup-join-the-nationwide-wave-of-protests/

flouncyfanny · 28/08/2019 19:32

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LoveGrowsWhere · 28/08/2019 19:33

I have never been more disappointed in our MPs of all parties.

flouncyfanny · 28/08/2019 19:34

This reply has been deleted

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woman19 · 28/08/2019 19:35

I have never been more disappointed in our MPs of all parties
I have never been more disappointed in the entitled laziness of the british.

Outsomnia · 28/08/2019 19:35

Ah we will be all fine. No opposition. Perfect time to do this.

That is tongue in cheek. BTW.

The opposition left it far too late IMO. So now you reap what you sow.

Hazardtired · 28/08/2019 19:38

hoooo (hooo hoo)

Ermmm slight problem with the continuously drunk plan. I do DP's meds and they are quite complicated at eve/night and in the morning. The lunchtime ones are easy.

This only occurred to me AFTER I GOT DRUNK Grin DP is fine...I got them right....it was tremendous effort. there were no minor burns involved in cooking tea either

I can either cope with DP stuff or brexit not both...someone call someone and just say brexit is not doable so we're not doing it.

RedToothBrush · 28/08/2019 19:38

twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1166780557465980929

Video of the protest in London tonight.

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BackInTime · 28/08/2019 19:38

Isn't he taking a huge gamble that 'No Deal' would have so little impact that people would remain indifferent?

He's softening the blow with lots of spending promises from the magic money tree and hoping that a GE will happen before any negative impacts of Brexit hit home. It is indeed the bus all over again.

RedToothBrush · 28/08/2019 19:39

twitter.com/cookiris14/status/1166780425513111552
Video of outside Downing Street.

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