Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westminstenders: Prorogation

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 28/08/2019 11:10

Its come to this.

Boris Johnson is to ask the Queen for permission to suspend parliament.

There are several legal challenges in the system to prevent this from happening.

It is unlikely to be able to stopped and the Queen is unlikely to intervene either. To do so would expose the Monarchy directly to a political threat which could lead to the downfall of the Crown if the cards lined up. Johnson has deliberate set up the situations where if she does, he is on the 'side of the people' whilst she is on the 'side of the establishment'. If she does nothing, she might be exposed still but none action, can be spun as political neutrality.

As David Allen Green points out:
^David Allen Green @davidallengreen
This is now the realm of pure politics

No court is likely to intervene - and it is not obvious what remedy a court could even grant so as to satisfactorily resolve the matter

"Not justiciable" as judges sometimes say

As we have seen so far, the opposition have been completely outclassed when it comes to 'pure politics' partly because of tribalism, partly because they lacked the capacity to understand and imagine how bad this could get - they never thought Johnson would go this far (massive tactical mistake) and partly because they so far do not understand whats driving this and have not produced and alternative narrative and explaination to counter those social and political fractures. Indeed everything they are doing is only serving to reinforce and widen those rifts and their complete lack of self awareness has been to blame. Johnson not only sees these fractures, he understands them, knows how to exploit them and most importantly is willing to do anything to retain power.

Authoritarians are always driven by this lust for power and are won't stop for anything. Thats why they are so dangerous and why checks and balances were put into the system. The trouble is the opposition didn't read the signs and are flapping in the wind now its reached the point where they suddenly realise its too far gone to be able to do much. The runaway train is firmly off the rails.

This all comes a day after the opposition apparently have agree a strategy to oppose No Deal. Which seems to include a VoNC. Remember this will always require Tory Rebels as even working together the Opposition haven't got the numbers - especially considering there are a few Labour Brexiteers.

This is being framed as a coalition of anti-democrats (which is something of a contradiction on several levels) by the government and the Brexit Party.

They have signed a pledge to set up an alternative parliament if government does prorogue parliament. This is full on civil war era stuff aka as a full blown constitutional crisis. Its actively into dangerous terrority. And as such, we very much into talking about the very real possibility of civil unrest. This is no longer something that can be considered hyperbole.

The timetable of this would see parliament prorogued just a few days into September (next week), closed to prepare for a new Queen's Speech and returning around the 17th October remembering the crucial final EU sumit on the 17th October. A VoNC doesn't necessarily mean the government will go though. There is no legal requirement to force the government to stand down. We may yet end up with a situation of two governments claiming legitmacy at the same time in late October. Prime Ministers Corbyn and Johnson.

A GE might eventually be the result of such a constitutional crisis but we would be way past 31st October before that happens.

Would we end up with an extension in such circumstances? Well the Prime Minister has to ask for one formally from the EU and the EU have to agree to one.

The problem being, who do the EU recognise as our PM?

We also have things coming into legal effect on the 1st November which would otherwise need revoking by parliament.

Which Parliament?

Things are going to get very very messy indeed.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
18
wheresmymojo · 28/08/2019 18:44

How long before we get Government advice to citizens on No Deal

Are you actually expecting something interesting? I'm very much expecting it to be more along the lines of propaganda than actual useful information with the exception of a note to exporting business owners to register for EORIs.

For the average person I just expect it to be along the lines of "You might have heard about possible medication disruptions but don't worry, we've got it mainly under control and there probably won't be a problem. You probably won't die, etc, etc"

Hazardtired · 28/08/2019 18:45

hooo on it! Was debating the merits of stockpiling mixers...I love a fancy mixer. But I'm try to cut back to keep costs down so was thinking cheap soda water and then I can randomly embellish it with what i have...just tried chilli was fine.

DP can't drink so I'm drinking for two 👍

Hoooo · 28/08/2019 18:46

I used to lob any old stuff in mixers....ah! Those were the days!

DGRossetti · 28/08/2019 18:48

It wasn't the weakness of the opposition parties who let hitler in(they in fact performed rather well), it was the lazy daft entitled populace who allowed it.

So the entire post-war rehabilitation of Germany has been a crock, and the people were to blame ?

caringcarer · 28/08/2019 18:49

Even if JC called vote of no confidence in B J it is unlikely that parliament would vote to have confidence in him given that some of his own party have defected rather than serve under him. Just pointing out the obvious here.

DGRossetti · 28/08/2019 18:50

He is also very good at saying one thing and then its opposite a few days later (sometimes the same day!). It confuses people but also allows everyone to chose to remember the bits they like.

That's Trump. What about Johnson ?

prettybird · 28/08/2019 18:50

I think it's going to be along the lines of "When the wind blows" nuclear explosion advice to get under a table Hmm

It will be something like, "think positive thoughts and it's not going to be that bad if we you are all sensible and don't go stockpiling luxuries as we'll have first dibs Hmm"

tobee · 28/08/2019 18:50

I'm surprised that Johnson didn't say that poroguing parliament is perfectly normal before the Queen's speech and to say its about Brexit is FAKE NEWS!

That's basically what the new Trumpian World is advocating; you can say whatever you like and then say the opposite but it's not a problem because you just say any criticism is not true be because enough fucking idiots will believe you.

Hoooo · 28/08/2019 18:50

Don't put vanilla extract in it though...that was rank

tobee · 28/08/2019 18:51

Cross post Grin

ImNotYourGranny · 28/08/2019 18:52

Just seen that the Swedish press are reporting that Boris Johnson is behaving like dictator.

cherin · 28/08/2019 18:52

Jeee I had to go and google up what’s the Home Counties! I can say now that a good % of my more mature colleagues is from the Home Counties (the young ones pay an arm and a leg for a room in London). But they’re all European nationals nonetheless :-)

Camomila · 28/08/2019 18:52

hoooo and haz I can't drink gin or eat anything nice (pg, with hyperemisis)
I got 6 inches chopped off my hair today instead.
I'm still terrified of Brexit but at least now I've got nice hair.

prettybird · 28/08/2019 18:53

Ds is rooting for Ross Thomson to take over from Ruth Davidson Wink. He says that it would make Scottish Independence inevitable as he's such an idiot Grin

wheresmymojo · 28/08/2019 18:54

Welllllll....I mean did people actually buy that the people weren't to blame?

I mean, I'm reading this memoir, and I realise life in Germany was pretty shit around that time but it's basically clear from the outset that they're a violent anti-Semitic group of thugs who kill opponents and set the fire in the Reichstag.

People chose not to believe it in the face of what seem to be extremely obvious facts.

Okay, no-one could foresee the ghettos and the mass genocide but it was obvious they were persecuting Jewish people and others and were killing people they didn't like.

RedToothBrush · 28/08/2019 18:55

Isn't he taking a huge gamble that 'No Deal' would have so little impact that people would remain indifferent?

No because the populace is being primed to blame x, y or z instead of Brexit. Especially if they believe they want Brexit. Anything but believe they got it wrong or were somehow duped...

OP posts:
cherin · 28/08/2019 18:55

Camomilla you should have kept it, to sell in case of desperation like Jo in Little Women (that was the American civil war, but never mind)!!
(Just kidding)
(Treat yourself!)

wheresmymojo · 28/08/2019 18:56

It will be something like, "think positive thoughts and it's not going to be that bad

Maybe every household will get a 'magic eye' picture that will show a unicorn if you squint and hold your head at just the right angle?

With text that says 'Sorry about the food and medication but here's a unicorn'.

Hoooo · 28/08/2019 18:59

camomila oh you poor thing! 😔

pamperramper · 28/08/2019 18:59

.

wheresmymojo · 28/08/2019 18:59

Twitter campaign for a #generalstrike.

Doesn't say what day though Hmm

cherin · 28/08/2019 19:01

I said it in another thread today, but he’s really good, this BJ, in a criminal way but seriously good.
He’s promised a mix of everything for everybody: police, school funding, nhs, business tax rebates, you name it.
Of course unless he’s found the magic money tree he’ll not deliver it. But it’s kind of irrelevant because he will survive and his party will survive the next elections (and that’s priority1 for tories). If it doesn’t happen, he has already repeated multiple times that the blame is elsewhere and as we read from the comments by brexiteers here (and on the bbc news) people believe him.
I think he’s won.
He’ll land on his feet no matter what.

Bastard

wheresmymojo · 28/08/2019 19:05

Yep, totally agree Cherie. Unless something significant changes Boris is on for a win.

He's buying off the masses with false promises and a money tree.

Corbyn won't have a chance against a BJ/Cummings campaign machine.

boatyardblues · 28/08/2019 19:07

I got 6 inches chopped off my hair today instead. I'm still terrified of Brexit but at least now I've got nice hair.

Smart move. If there are shortages of shampoo, you have less hair to keep clean.

boatyardblues · 28/08/2019 19:10

Postscript: I am so aghast at the current shit show, I have nothing useful to add. Thank you to the staunch Westminsterenders for continuing to carry these threads.