Westminstenders: A photo opportunity

[RedToothBrush]

Johnson likes publicity.

Any attention is good attention. Whilst you are talking about how crazy his idea is, the less you come up with your own.

And there it is. The lack of plan to stop no deal. Just a bunch of idiots who argue over who is more right about politics without offering up a practical solution.

Unable to see their own flaws.

And leading us ever closer to the cliff edge and operation Yellowhammer.

Hester just wants a fight, ignore him....

(Plus from the vocab Hester is another of our overseas Brexit warriors)

HesterThrale Worst case, people would blame the gov for not planning, prepare for the worst,hope for the best

How much are you willing to bet about food, medicine and other shortages, Hester54?

If anyone knew what they were voting for, how come you are on your third prime minister in three years?

You must be ( take your pick ) racist, thick, right wing xenophobic,
You forgot "All of the above".

Mistigri No I don’t and it’s her if you don’t mind

mathanxiety I’m not on my third Pm, not my party, voted to leave the EU, one of only two options on the paper,
If everybody was really honest, I don’t think anybody could have for seen the political fallout that has accrued, yes there will be those who say, I knew what was going to happen, but they are lying

madambee

You might want to look at the whole Brexit forum for more information about the situation regarding the island, Republic and province of (Northern) Ireland. There are posters who live in both halves and who are far better informed that I am - which is why I would defer to them.

If it's any help, from my side of the water, if there were to be a desire in NI for union with Ireland, then I would feel it's their decision, and would express that where possible if it ever became something that the rest of the UK had to vote on (which I believe it isn't).

Ditto for Scotland.

Here we go again the EU has been good to us, do you really believe that, as for Tusk he has said many bad things against people in the U.K.
Hester54

Name the "many bad things" that wicked man Tusk has said "against people in the U.K."

The UK went from being the economic basket case of the EEC when it first joined, with nine of the ten most deprived regions of the EEC part of the UK, to being the 5th largest economy in the world right before Brexit. Countless beneficiaries of the EU Regional Fund (those who are not too racist, thick, right wing or xenophobic anyway) would beg to differ when it comes to how good the EU has been to the UK. Ditto farmers, who have realised far too late that a vote for Brexit was a vote for their own extinction.

Was this something Donald Tusk said:
British people should “recognise that most of our problems are not caused by Brussels, but by chronic British short-termism, inadequate management, sloth, low skills, a culture of easy gratification, and under-investment in both human and physical capital and infrastructure.”

Ok so, let's count the PMs who have been in power since 2016.

1 -David Cameron
2- Theresa May
3- Boris Johnson

That looks like 3 to me.

Correct me if you see a mistake there.

If everybody was really honest, I don’t think anybody could have for seen the political fallout that has accrued, yes there will be those who say, I knew what was going to happen, but they are lying

I read a lot of dire warnings of the chaos and paralysis to parliament voting to leave the EU would cause - they were certainly out there. That's my honesty. A casual trawl of newspaper archives would back me up.

There was a poster on these threads a while ago who tried to claim that "nobody" had predicted there would be a problem regarding the Irish border. Then someone (maybe me) produced a few huge 2-page articles from before the referendum with Blair and Major warning of the dangers to the GFA and Northern Ireland.

From your remark, 'Not my party" I take it that you don't realise that the PM is the prime minister of the UK regardless for what party you belong to. If your are British, 'Your PM/your prime minister' means 'the prime minister of the UK'.

@hester54 I’m an eu citizen in the uk. My husband is British and my dcs are teens, right in the middle of the exams years so basically I’m stuck.

I didn’t have a say in the vote and my quality of life has already decreased because of the xenophobia and the environment created by TM.
I will also badly suffer from any fall out from brexit.

I still think the EU has given up things I didn’t want them to drop and has given a lot to the uk with the WA.
And I’m still fed up and starting to think ‘your problem. Just get on with it and solve it. Starting by at least proposing some solution to get out if this dead end situation’
I still agree with madambee. And my empathy has run out.

I also believe that the uk is in a very dangerous place with the risk of moving from a far right government to one that will also be totalitarian.

Unfortunately it seems that the uk as a whole is unable to find a way out that doesnt involve self harming.

If you are British

... you tend not to blow smoke up your donkey.

If you were for example American you might not have had three, or indeed any, prime ministers.

The EU is not perfect, but its better than the alternative.
And only by being at the decision table can it be improved.

If everybody was really honest, I don’t think anybody could have for seen the political fallout that has accrued, yes there will be those who say, I knew what was going to happen, but they are lying
Hester54

I don't think anyone could have foreseen the level of gross ineptitude in the British political establishment. We suspected that might be the case here all along, but as time has gone on it has become clear that the depths of stupidity, cupidity and incompetence have yet to be plumbed.

If we have been wrong, if we have underestimated the extent of the criminal stupidity or the capacity of certain cliques in Westminster to keep on refusing to accept reality and continuing to lie to the electorate, it has been a case of not being appalled enough soon enough.

dgrossetti Thank you again. Building up the courage to post a thread asking for Irish opinions. Not sure I'm brave enough .

Not one non-UK citizen voted for Brexit. Not one (DGR?)

To be pedantic, this is not strictly true. While almost no EU citizens were able to vote in the EU Referendum (unless they happened to be dual citizens ), Commonwealth citizens, if they happened to be living in the UK at the time, were able to vote. And you can't guarantee that they didn't vote for Brexit

Ironically, that also means that citizens of two EU countries, if they were resident in the UK at the time, were able to vote: Malta and Cyprus.

@madambee
Ireland will not be bounced in to a poorly timed, ill thought out, rushed referendum on unity by a poorly timed, ill thought out, rushed Brexit referendum in the U.K.

If there is a referendum on unity I would expect there would first be a Citizens Assembly, then a cross party parliamentary committee which would lead to draft legislation and a proposed constitutional amendment.
That way all the issues could be considered in advance and we would know exactly what we would be voting for.

Madamebee
you talk of the Irish border, and of a united north and south Ireland. Is this doable considering the past and if so what does the Irish think if this

It is doable, especially with EU economic help.

The new 32 county Irish economy would take a hit. This causes anxiety in present day 26 county Ireland, whose economy differs from that of NI in significant ways, and which has developed into a far less conservative society than that of NI.

Under the umbrella of the EU, a reunited Ireland might be able to withstand the economic and cultural hit, but as with German reunification, problems might persist, especially in terms of culture. With appropriate constitutional and political structures in place, and the press behaving responsibly (this tends to be the case in Ireland) it is likely that teething pains would be managed and overcome. The education system would have a role in integration. Ireland would end up with political parties representing progressive vs conservative povs as opposed to the current political divisions that are all based on issues related to the struggle for independence from the UK and the struggle to remain part of the UK. There would be a very interesting political realignment, with many not-so-strange-when-you-think-about-it bedfellows emerging.

The present NI economy is heavily dependent on public service jobs, on food processing (which is in turn heavily dependent on cross border trade), and on EU regional fund aid, along with EU farm aid. A new political entity within the EU could have regional fund aid that reflects the reality of the natural regions that are now divided - the border is a completely artificial creation that cuts through a region that is agriculturally homogenous, with the same terrain and farming issues on both sides. Economic planning and co-ordination would be made monumentally easier and more effective by eliminating the border.

Politically, the only group unwilling to countenance a reunification of Ireland is the NI Unionists, and of course their terrorist hangers on are always a threat in the background.

And I agree with Inniu - planning, consultation, and assessment of issues and aims tends to be the Irish way of doing things. The contrast with the UK couldn't be more stark..

If everybody was really honest, I don’t think anybody could have for seen the political fallout that has accrued, yes there will be those who say, I knew what was going to happen, but they are lying

About that...

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2662474-To-wish-we-could-get-some-decent-advice-on-whether-to-vote-to-Brexit-or-Bremain?pg=7&order=

My post on 16th June 2016 at 13.41 isn't aging badly....

HesterThrale and BCF definitely inspiring young women. Great stuff.

Jacinda Ahern just on CNN Amanpour. She's great. And in power.

red that post. another one.

*You can't just overthrown the government - domestic or the EU - with two fingers up, unless you have a credible alternative waiting in the wings with a credible alternative to fill the void.

Where is that? Where is that really?

I just hear a loud echoing silence to that question*

Well said Red!!!

I wonder where all those mumsnetters are now (from that thread) as so many names I don't recognise.

It’s very small in numbers but there is a current ‘Prevent No Deal ‘ Petition:

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/262986

I’ve signed it - not that I think it will make a difference but I’m fed up listening to myself bleating on about doing nothing so decided to do something, however small.