Westminstenders: A photo opportunity

[RedToothBrush]

Johnson likes publicity.

Any attention is good attention. Whilst you are talking about how crazy his idea is, the less you come up with your own.

And there it is. The lack of plan to stop no deal. Just a bunch of idiots who argue over who is more right about politics without offering up a practical solution.

Unable to see their own flaws.

And leading us ever closer to the cliff edge and operation Yellowhammer.

The original NI only Backstop was the result of the UK's own red lines (see Barnier's Staircase slide).

It was the UK's idea to extend it to cover the whole of the UK, after that DUP threw its toys out of the pram. The EU didn't want to do that, as it meant that the UK would be getting all the benefits of the Single Market (and CU) without any of the obligations, but they did agree to it out of kindness goodwill in order to help May get the WA through the HoP - since their first priority was to protect their ongoing member and its International Peace Treaty (even if the UK didn't appear to give a fuck and/or thinks that "trust us, someone will invent something sometime" is sufficient ). The backstop was the only way this could be protected.

The U.K. have said time and again EU rights will be protected in a no deal situation

...until this week when P. Patel suddenly said FOM would end on Nov 1st, leaving a couple of million people in limbo.
Many EU countries have offered firmer guarantees to UK citizens resident there than the UK, with its vague promises, has.
All have to work within the constraints of their own laws and adjust to a whole new setup imposed by the UK's referendum.

France, for instance, has introduced legislation saying that British functionaries can keep their jobs after Brexit, although that goes against domestic law which states such status is only for French and EU citizens.
Keep their jobs.
Not just stay in the country and apply for settled status on an app that isn't available to all and facing constantly shifting deadlines.
That seems quite kind, in the circumstances.

I think, the uk not knowing what they want and being very divided, is the issue. But blaming EU for this, and saying it is their fault, well that just creates resentment. The 'ordinary' people of EU would love for you to stay, I think, but you have just taken it too far.

I suspect the 'ordinary' people of the UK would love to stay too. It's just our dipshit politicians (and the broken "democracy" that put them there) that are the problem.

It could never happen, of course, but a bold solution would be for the EU to openly offer every UK citizen that wishes it, to "buy into" the EU and see if the receipts from that exceed the donations to UKIP/BXP. Sort of squeeze the tube from both ends, so to speak.

(Awaits howls of "you haven't thought it through" from the less aware readers ....)

Excellent article by Mark Durkan on NI and the Backstop. Good outline on how NI is intrinsically so different from countries of GB.

Letter sent to Tusk by a more than half the MLAs, who represent the majority of voters in NI, saying they support the backstop for NI.

And an article by Matthew O'Toole with an eloquent line "Control and consent are intimately related. Where consent exists and is freely given, statements of control are unnecessary."

www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/08/what-boris-johnson-and-brexiteers-get-wrong-about-backstop

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/majority-of-northern-irelands-mlas-sign-letter-to-donald-tusk-supporting-brexit-backstop-38426562.html

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/22/boris-johnson-northern-ireland-uk-sovereignty?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium=&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1566469514

Interesting from MO'T outlining how things cannot revert to how NI was when first created. "Most intriguingly, the letter (from Johnson) argues that the Good Friday agreement is founded on the protection of “minority rights”. This is a phrase that never appears in the agreement. It implies a decades-old view of Northern Ireland being constructed of a unionist majority and nationalist minority. This is simply no longer true. Unionist parties have not won a majority of votes cast in a Northern Ireland election since 2005. While there is likely still a majority for Northern Ireland remaining in the United Kingdom, this is not the same thing as a “unionist majority”. Both unionism and nationalism are minorities now, with the balance being held by an unaligned, liberal middle."

This is NOT to fuel a fire, but because of my ignorance, can I please ask -

you talk of the Irish border, and of a united north and south Ireland. Is this doable considering the past and if so what does the Irish think if this?

madambee The lack of empathy for british citizens is startling, you want us to die from lack of meds just like our government does?

There's been a right wing take over, a PM we did not elect, a referendum that is debatable illegal but you want us to go now because we're an inconvenience? How is that the spirit of the union that was created in part to hold peace?

Europe needs to watch and learn from British mistakes. I see the calls for a frexit and italexit have stopped because of our shit show so we have actually been useful as a bad example.

The Dutch are signing up in large numbers to 'wave goodbye to the UK' on Halloween at a beach party.

www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/brexit-beach-party-in-the-netherlands-1-6228534

madambee The lack of empathy for british citizens is startling, you want us to die from lack of meds just like our government does?

So what would you propose madambee does about it personally ? And why should they feel any empathy for British Citizens when the lawfully elected representatives of those British Citizens have gone out of their way to be as insulting as possible about almost every other country in the EU ?

Part of the "thing" about democracy is that it binds us all together. For better or for worse (and believe me, it's so much worse) we have to accept that as far as the rest of the world goes, Boris Johnson speaks for us. The same way we have to accept that Donald Trump is speaking for all US citizens.

I think there is a case to be made that some of us around the world have lost sight of what democracy really means.

If we want to talk about empathy, then maybe reversing the telescope, I can empathise with madambee ...

Totally agree with you @Hazardtired

My sympathy is with the British citizens who will suffer the realities of a no deal brexit. Those in other eu countries complaining that they are sick of the news coverage. Turn off the news. Ignore it. I wish I could, but sadly I'll be living it.

"It was very kind to offer a WA knowing fair well it would be rejected"

The EU negotiated the WA with the elected British govenrment.
The all-UK backstop came from the PM

The EU cannot say "your government are idiots, send us a new one"
(or they'd have that message on repeat !)

The problem is that a minority UK government would have had great problems passing any WA,
because one HoC faction would say it was too hard Brexit, another would say it was too soft, another doesn't want Brexit at all ....

All UK political parties are using Brexit to try to lumber their opponents with the blame
and many politicians see Brexit as a chance to further their own career

Hardly any Uk politician is putting the UK first
.... and after all that, you expect EU politicians to put the UK first, before the EU ?

And regarding another No Deal for the UK (USA this time)

Brian O'Donovan@BrianOD_News

Here is the letter sent by the US Congressional Friends of Ireland Caucus to @BorisJohnson^^
warning that it will oppose any US-UK trade deal if the Good Friday Agreement is undermined.

It’s the latest #Brexit warning to come from the US Congress.
@rtenews

.

hazardtired i can understand your feelings, but but... You may feel your democracy is failing but at some point the uk population had the chance to vote, both labour/tory and pro/con EU.

We didn't have that, we didn't expel you, you left and slammed the door (your politicians). So this cannot be our responsibility, we may feel sorry for you, but your politician's rhetoric against the eu, being the cause of all evil in UK doesn't help the emphaty. Your country needs to help it's own population, now you didn't want to stay.

Dmitry Grozoubinski@DmitryOpines (trade wonk)

Reminder:
When New Zealand lost preferential access to its traditional export market (the UK),

its economy and standard of living cratered and took 20 years to recover.

This despite a transition period and their massive tariff free quotas into the EU (which the UK won't get).

dg don't make me laugh why should anyone be empathetic? Why seriously? Let's all be selfish and unthinking and unfeeling. Let's all be called Nigel and Boris.

What do I want Madame to to do? Be empathetic.

What do I want you to do? Be empathetic.

I can empathise that the UK is annoying to the rest of Europe but I can also see that there is something to be learned from a crisis - as with any crisis.

My sympathy is with the British citizens who will suffer the realities of a no deal brexit. Those in other eu countries complaining that they are sick of the news coverage. Turn off the news. Ignore it. I wish I could, but sadly I'll be living it.

Is this a new tack from Brexiteers - the faux sympathy for people who will suffer in the country that chose to (a) put it to those people and (b) fuck up every possible way foward once the vote was counted ? Whatever happened to "the will of the people" ?

Meanwhile, citizens in all 27 rEU countries have been forced to cough up for all manner of preparations for a Brexit which the UK has managed to balls up so badly that two (not one, two) extensions were needed. And even then we pissed around. And that's before we consider the impact Brexit is having on families in those 27 countries who may have family in the UK and no idea what will happen to them.

I'm not unsympathetic or unempathetic to my fellow UK citizens. But there is a sense of proportion and responsibility here. With the UK being totally responsible. Not one non-UK citizen voted for Brexit. Not one. The EU wasn't asked.

Thank you dgrossetti .

Oh i will just have to turn of the telly, won't i. You do know this is costing EU countries a lot of money?

I can understand madambee's pov
If UK voters don't want No Deal, or even don't want Brexit, they shouldn't have voted for it

However, the voters of Scotland and NI did indeed vote against Brexit; they were just overwhelmed by English Brexiters

Germans I talk to are very sympathetic to the plight of ordinary Brits, especially expats.

However, official policy of EU member governments is driven by having to deal with the govt / MPs that the UK voters elected
and it is a very rightwing, arrogant & ignorant government.

The EU can't do much to help the people of a non-member, or soon to be one, when the UK govt itself is only interested in the profits for the rich from Brexit, not the plight of its own people

All they can do is help the Brits living in the EU

The UK is not only annoying to the EU.
It is also forcing EU countries to spend unnecessary millions on action to mitigate the worst effects of Brexit on infrastructure, trade and economy, while brutally announcing it is about to radically curtail the rights of EU citizens resident in the UK, some for many years.

Many EU citizens in northern France, Belgium and the Netherlands are all too aware of how much Brexit is costing and are understandably weary of watching the UK faff around over domestic issues and party political squabbles without seeming to make any headway at all.

Btw i thought I was trying to be emphatic, I do feel that way. But enough is enough i my opinion.

I'm sure most uk citizens don't have much emphaty with EU countries paying up, understandably you have bigger problems but is this really a contest?

Cross-posted with several people...

@DGRossetti
What are you talking about? Faux sympathy from Brexiteers? I voted remain. I feel sick when I think of people dying, people struggling to feed their children, as a result of this. So I do think these people deserve more sympathy than someone who is in an eu country which is almost certainly more stable than the UK. Many people didn't vote for this. Kind of irrelevant to those people that no EU citizens voted to leave.

@madambee
I get that the rest of the EU is fed up with the antics of the UK, I get it's going to cost the other members money, but people here are scared, and will suffer most.

The costs that citizens of several EU countries are having to pay for Brexit preparations:
new infrastructure, extending port terminals, hundreds of new staff per port

all goes down like a bowl of cold sick when it's all because the Uk voted Brexit.
Noone else did

The UK seems to be taken as an object lesson in why leaving the EU is a very bad idea for a countr's economy
So maybe being a horrible example is our one bit of use

People tend to be far less sympathetic to problems that are self-created, than to victims of hurricanes, volcanos etc

Human, but sucks when we're on the receiving end for once

madam I get what your saying and i agree brexit is a british problem. I think your also highlighting a cultural problem across Europe and particularly the UK.

It's not my problem.

We're sorry for you but we won't help. That attitude swept the UK, used against refugees and snowballed on and on.

The EU has been good to the UK, Tusk in particular but I see the we're bored of this sentiments of the public in Europe...and that concerns me in a way that's bigger than brexit.