Am I the only one?

[thrumylookingglass]

I have been reading with interest all the threads on this board. Am I the only who cannot believe the tone, content and the sheer catastrophe thinking about this issue? Reading threads about stockpiling and falling out with family and friends over this strikes me as strange. Historically, there a many, many more events that have had a humanitarian impact on the world ... Brexit is not one of these! There may, or may not, be an economic impact of Brexit, but will people die? Get killed? Be oppressed? There needs to be some perspective here.

@Mamamia456 , so you genuinely don't think people would, oo , I don't know, get a few different people to buy small amounts. And deplete stocks that way. No? Impossible? Too fanciful?

Bellingsurge - But it wouldn't matter anyway because you'd be none the wiser. If you saw 5 people going into a supermarket and buying 2 loaves of bread each, you wouldn't know if they were all from the local cafe in town stocking up or if they were 5 members of the public.

And word doesn't get around does it. Truth or rumour. And stupid panic buying starts.

Bellingsurge - Yes, but if people panic buy you won't be part of that because you've got your stockpile.

No I won't be there. But I kind of like peace and order. And people not getting wound up and stressed out. And kicking off. Maybe you don't mind that. But I do.

Bellingsurge - I'm a pretty laid back person, but reading some of the comments from remainers on these threads, I think they'd love it if there was panic and chaos.

@Mamamia456 if you think people would love chaos and disruption, you must have an odd view of society.

Jason118 - As I said, from reading the comments from some remainers on these threads.

Bucking, there is no need to swear!
I do not believe that the NHS will cease to function.
There are many non EU staff in my local hospital and those that are there are staying.
So this proves nothing apart from the fact that you are trying to spread panic.
No one, except you, is saying that the NHS will be sold and people will have to pay.

And the BBC report is referring to small businesses not members of the public.
I just hope that Boris sticks to his guns and we leave. These threads will be irrelevant then .

@Coppersulphate , I have said countless times that the EU would agree with a border in the sea and we could leave in that basis.
Would you really like to see a care home employee strong armed out of Morrison's for buying several loaves of bread. Or a childminder because they have bought extra fruit. These are the "bulk buyers" I see in the supermarkets I shop at.
Or the parent of a large family with a big shop to do. Don't you see them at the shop you go to?
All that aggro because you won't accept the obvious solution of a border in the sea.

People have died due to the Tory’s cruel cuts to the benefits system.

So yes I think that people will die due to Brexit.

Huge complacency OP.

Films and TV have made people think bad stuff happens because of bad people. It happens through recklessness and inefficiency.

Why would food and medicine be withheld? Why would law and order break down? Because these things are all built on systems that took decades to create. Start unpicking and the whole thing comes down.

We're not entitled to stability, these things can collapse overnight. Other EU countries with memories of occupation, war, shortages under communism etc understand this much better.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-49420841

@Coppersulphate - have you read this article? People’s life’s could be at risk - why would you want to leave the EU when there are no positives only huge negatives. I don’t think you understand the implications.

I do not believe that the NHS will cease to function

I would very much like to think you were right. But to people with actual knowledge about how the NHS functions, how close to collapse it already is, and how fragile the supply chains are, your belief is just ignorant wishful thinking.

Reading some of the comments from remainers on these threads, I think they'd love it if there was panic and chaos.
LOL at remainers loving panic and chaos. We'd have voted leave if that was true.

@Coppersulphate it's amusing that you think that when we leave the EU on 31st October you think threads like these will be irrelevant.

This is going to rumble on and and on and on and for years.

It's almost as if you think things will be the same pre and post Brexit.

If that's the case, why bother voting Leave?

Things most definitely won't be the same.

Should things get difficult, would you be prepared to admit things are more difficult because of Brexit? Or simply bumps in the road?

I'm not sure even concrete evidence matters any more in this Brexshit world.

I do not believe that the NHS will cease to function

I'm sorry but this is naive optimism and shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the political shift that has taken place in the U.K. - well in England to be accurate.

Look at the political think tanks the government chooses to advise it. Look at the Institute of economic affairs, Singham, look at what members of the ERG believe.

The Conservative belief in individual responsibility, limited state provision , free markets etc has shifted closer to the US position.

Under ERG type beliefs there is now an unspoken drive that health care, education etc should not be funded by taxation and should be more down to individual freedom to choose ...and fund.

Follow the traces of US money used to back the leave campaign and look at the belief system behind it. There has been a political and ideological shift.

metro.co.uk/2019/08/21/ending-eu-citizens-freedom-of-movement-will-kill-the-nhs-10605937

its just so sad.

and coming up with crap like 'you want brexit to be bad' shows how stupid people are...

Yes possibly the biggest and in my view most imbecile error by the leave voters. Believing that the Tories would invest in social care and the NHS. I don’t buy that leavers where lied to. Well they were lied to, but the are also pretty stupid to think that these right wing Tories is what the NHS need🤷🏻‍♀️

Do you think they will let people die or suffer?

I don't think they will necessarily have a choice. One of the fallacies of this whole mess has been the idea that Europe can just help us out with what we need/want and then everything will be fine. If there are massive queues at entry points and crossing the border becomes chaos/trucking services stop functioning because it becomes economically unviable, there will be nothing the EU can do to expedite things.

I don't know how it will be OP, no one does. But I am someone who has worked on a lot of the humanitarian disasters you talk about, conflict zones, natural disasters, failed states etc. And I will say this - it takes very little to make things go south very fast. One country I was working in recently had a nationwide power cut - which with it took out water, fuel, communications, life support machines in hospitals, ability to buy food or access cash - it was Mad Max within a day or two. And that's in a country where people are a lot more used to hardship and surviving than here.

Do I think it's apocalyptic to imagine that a few days without access to some basic foodstuffs and lifesaving medicines would lead to riots? Not at all, it has happened all around the world, including in very developed countries (even New York with a couple of days of blackout). I think those who can't imagine it have become used to the idea that these things can't happen here and are actually quite naive.

I hope of course that ways around things will be found, and everything will be fine. But to dismiss those who are looking at worse case scenarios as somehow unaware of "true" disasters? I actually think it's the people who are shrugging off such worries as doom-mongering as the unaware ones.

If you work from the premise that “Remainers want chaos/bad things/Brexit to fail” is:

(a) getting excuses in early
(b) magical thinking in which bad people are the cause of bad events

then it makes more sense.

Where are the leavers with sensible workable solutions to Brexit?

Where
Are
They?

The NHS will eventually collapse with or without Brexit anyway. When it was introduced back in the 1940s the UK was a very different country. Not only has our population increased vastly since then, but medical advances mean that people can be treated for conditions and illnesses which wouldn't have been possible years ago. Obviously that's a good thing, but I don't think it would matter how much money was given to the NHS it would never be enough sadly, because medical advances mean more new treatments which means more money needed.

We also take the NHS for granted. Last month 94 people failed to turn up for their appointment to see the GP at my surgery, and it was even more for the nurse. If that happens at every surgery how many millions a year must that cost the NHS?

"The NHS will eventually collapse with or without Brexit anyway. " while I actually agree with that I would rather deal with it via a non-hammered economy and a relatively united country.
It is scandalous you just want to flush healthcare provision down the toilet.